The Gracious Two - LIVE Show 094 - Chad Taylor

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We are live, ladies and gentlemen, and I am here

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with half of live joined always as by my co host,

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Mr. Chad Gracie, the heartbeat of live and. And

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the one and only Lord of the Stomp, Mr. Chad

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Taylor. What is going on, gentlemen? How's it

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going, guys? Hey, welcome. Thanks for having

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me on. This is such an honor. I was telling you

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guys just before we hit air, I'm a frequent viewer

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and a big fan of the podcast. I think you guys

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do a great job and. I just appreciate everything

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you guys have done to just keep the stories about

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the band, the music, all those things alive for

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all the fans. He included, by the way. It's been

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fun. I mean, yeah, I think you were saying earlier,

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John pulled out a different side of me that I

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didn't know I had because he asked me to do.

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He asked me to do his podcast a couple of times

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and we had fun. And then he's like, you want

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to do a podcast? And I'd never thought about

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doing one. I was like, sure. Sounds fun. Let's

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let's try that out. So it's been fun. He had

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too much personality to keep it behind a drum

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set and behind some plexiglass, so he had to

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break them out. You know what I'm saying, Mr.

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Taylor? So, John, my take on this, and I would

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have not known this, having known Chad since

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age 13 going forward, but he's kind of like the

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Charles Barkley of your show. Like, I mean, he

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will say and do things that you're like, whoa,

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what's that? And I mean, it would capture your

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mind. And I just think it's great. And I think

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it's brilliant. I will say this that um you know

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in a in a band of four very large personalities

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there's only so much air time and so it's so

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cool to see Chad have his air time and I've you

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know I just watched it was telling you guys I

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watched the Our Lady Peace interview and I was

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like Chad got into drum discussions and things

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that I earnestly have never heard him talk about

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I didn't even know that he knew about not being

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in a band with him my whole life. But I didn't

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ask him. I didn't know to ask those questions.

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But putting two drummers on the show was like,

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all of a sudden, there's a whole different level

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and layer to the conversation. It's been really

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refreshing. It's great to have Jason. Jason was

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awesome. He's an amazing drummer. He was a great

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guy. Yeah, I mean, yeah. drummers, drummers talking

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drums, man. What do you, what do you expect?

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Yeah. He lights up. You mentioned the drums.

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He starts mentioning cherry woods and Oak woods

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and all that jazz. I'm like, Holy testicle Tuesday.

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Yeah. So, I mean, we got lots of people making

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the comments already. So, you know, everyone

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we, you know, Chad and I, we, we had a little

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spat like brothers, but you know, we've, we're

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mending fences and, and working on things going

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forward here. We obviously, I don't know if anyone's

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seen, if you all seen the video you probably

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have with the Likini's juice on my YouTube. Yes.

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That was fun to do. I invited him in to do that

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and I thought it would be cool for the fans and

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to show everybody that, you know, Hey, we're,

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we're talking again. So it's good thing. Yo,

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let's talk about that video gentlemen. So one,

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it sounds absolutely phenomenal. To how did it

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put in the notes that Chad mixed that as well?

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So I gotta give him credit for that and did a

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great job The producer coming out again. I love

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it So well, you know guys I'm just trying to

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stop the music. That's right. Oh, that's right.

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You've been accused of yes I'm sorry, you know,

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if you're not laughing you're crying, right?

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So I need to laugh exactly And we were told you

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would never stop the music again. How dare you,

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Chad? There was one comment on the YouTube that,

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why is Chad in your video on green screen? Yeah,

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I know. People thought it was so bad that you

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had to green screen him in. That's hysterical.

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Yeah. I got the same thing. Somebody sent me

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a text and he was like, were you two actually

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together? So like, no, we were, I swear to God

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and to God, we were in the same room. Look, no

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green screen. No green screen. Everybody's actually

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here. This is no, this is AI Chad. Sorry. Oh

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my God. Imagine at one day. That's exactly what's

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going to be going on here. We won't be here,

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but AI will be doing our show. So talk to us

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guys. How did that video come about and what

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was it like being in the studio again together?

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Well, I got to give the credit to Chad. He's

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the one that said, well, actually it started

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with, I think originally I told him. When we

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were still not communicating with each other

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that I'd seen that he'd done one of those drum

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videos And you know how like you can stitch the

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things together. I was gonna do a stitch He basically

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was like well the hell with that why don't you

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just come in and play and And it really started

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from there and then oh You know, this is the

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problem with this strange semi autistic brain

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of mine. I didn't want to just do what had already

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been released for Likini Shoes. So what you're

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hearing is a brand new, never heard before track

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that is Chris Shin on vocals, Patrick Dahlheimer

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on bass, me on guitar, and Chad Gracie on drums.

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through the miracles of, you know, mixing techniques

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and stuff that we were able to bring back and

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bring to life. So what you're hearing, like when

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you're watching Chad perform, like that's literally

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the drums actually in the recording and, you

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know, my guitars and then Patrick Space and Chris

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is like, when I say raw vocals, Other than putting

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just a little tiny bit of EQ and compression

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on them You know, there's not even a skosh of

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auto -tune nothing That's just his vocals as

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pure as what they can be which is insane Of course,

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and the mix is really drum heavy because let's

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be honest. It's a drum video so we really wanted

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the drums to sit super forward in the mix and

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I spent an awful lot of time One of the signature

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sounds, you know, this is standing next to Chad

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without earplugs in or anything for so many years

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of his playing, he has an uncanny ability to

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play brilliant polyrhythms and ghost notes, in

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particular with his left hand. If you ever watch

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any video of him playing, he does this weird

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little rotational thing with the drumstick. If

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you watch it really closely in between every

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hit he rotates his drumstick and rotates and

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rotates and somewhere in between those He's playing

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these little ghost notes well in the in the first

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recording and the first mix right you can't hear

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that as much as what I could hear it standing

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on stage and so I've spent a whole bunch of time

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like trying to make that really stick forward

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in the mix and Oh, man, it's so hypnotic. It's

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it's so great and then Patrick's bass part is

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the most unconventional bass part, and you know,

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I know it's so easy to forget, but it is, when

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I say hypnotic, the thing that makes the track

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feel loping and hypnotic is what Patrick plays

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on bass. And I think that song, Likini's, more

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than any other song, really showcases the elemental

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aspect of what really made live life. Like that,

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Anne's melody is so incredibly powerful. The

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drums are just, I mean, so in your face and rhythmic

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and they both rock like you kind of want to head

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bang to it, but it also makes you dance. Yeah,

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that's kind of a hard thing to do. Like ACDC

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is like rock, just straightforward. This does

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a little bit of that, but has almost like a purdy

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shuffle in it. And then sorry to get all musical

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there. No, that is like, yeah, if I stop you're

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here, we remember your train of thought. Sure.

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OK, because just hearing you talk about your

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music, you could hear how much passion and how

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much thought you put into it. And this is again,

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this is not an Ed Kowalczyk bashing session,

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but I don't think he's ever put that much thought

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into into live at all, into the music, because

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it's just what I'm hearing coming from that side

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now. It's just nowhere near sonically what you

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guys once were. And it's clear that it's because

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a lot of the passion i .e. the two people right

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in this, you know, on this chat right now are

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gone. CT is like, based on the music theory friggin,

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you know, professional of live. Yeah, it has

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been. I think our work, Chad, don't you think

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our work, I would say our work as musicians,

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I think in particular, Patrick, Gracie and I,

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you know, we created the turn. We created the

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gracious few and of course all those live albums

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and you know, it's a signature sound. We take

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it with us wherever we go. Right. Yeah. There

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was just someone in the comments asking about

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getting the turn back on, uh, back out in the

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universe. And we will be working on that for

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sure. We're going to get that the gracious few

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not that long ago back out there. Yeah. Work

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on the turn next. I wore my gracious few hat

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for, for all the fans at home. Of course. It's

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the only hat I wear, and I have a blue flannel

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and a green flannel. And some people are saying,

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well, Chad is in like 70 degrees out, but not

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in my house. It's very cool in my house. And

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I still, this is part of stimming, which I like

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learned. Like when I was a kid, Chad might even

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remember that I used to just shake my legs and

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stuff all the time. And that's like part of ADHD

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and some spectral issues that I have. And so

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like, I never knew this, but like my habitual

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clothing, like I have very like soft things.

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I can't have anything itchy or scratchy. Like

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that's all, you know, part of the strangeness

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that I guess makes me me. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Let's

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talk about, hold on, John. Sorry, I have to cut

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you off. Let's talk about. your sobriety and

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that's kind of what has brought us to this moment

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is yeah, I think that you becoming sober, you

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know, figuring out whatever flaws you had as

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being and being on alcohol has or whatever you

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want to call it has realizing that and bettering

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yourself has brought us to this point. It's interesting

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because I had a really, I say this jokingly,

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but I had an amazing drinking career. I was a

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prolific drinker and always thought I had that

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under control and always thought that... what

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I was doing was normal for a guy of my caliber

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of musicianship and a rock band, all those things.

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And it was fully, I want to say endorsed and

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tolerated by almost everybody around me. And

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mostly because I was a difficult person to say

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no to or really even to give advice to. There's

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a real turning point, you know, I started like

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most young people drinking when I was super young

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You know definitely before I was 18 like middle

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school age funny enough probably about the time

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we started the band and all that was completely

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normal and regular but as I grew and I matured

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the Environment I was in was like the perfect

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Petri dish to breed an alcoholic and I didn't

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I knew that I had some family issues with this.

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My grandfather on my mother's side was a heavy

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drinker. And it's kind of funny, because I'll

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go all the way to the end and then jump back.

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But I basically wound up on stage playing a show.

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And I don't remember the show. I mean, I'm telling

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you, it was like one of those Scott Weiland -esque.

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I'm kind of almost surprised that a video hasn't

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been on the internet. But, you know, I was slurring

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my words and, you know, the next day, the following

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day, you know, every woman in my life was crying.

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That was my three daughters, my wife, my mother,

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some friends and family were like really concerned.

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And I think everybody here, you, John, you, Chad,

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all the fans coming in, they know like my number

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one love, the thing I love the most is music.

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Yeah, and when I realized now what's funny and

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this is really sad. This is the sad part about

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alcoholism I would have probably left it steal

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away my family and In fact, it probably almost

00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:30.960
did several times Wow, but when it came right

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up to the line of losing music I Was like well

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something needs to change. So I made up my mind

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the following day by the way, there was on my

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birthday so November 24th just about two years

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ago now, it's a year and a half ago, I said,

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that's it, I'm not gonna have another drink.

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The problem is that's just a decision not to

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drink, right? And I knew, like, so I woke up

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the next day, I was like, okay, I'm never doing

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that again. By the way, anybody in this chat

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or anybody that's ever had a drink, how many

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times you wake up and you had a hangover, you're

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like, I'll never do that again. And of course,

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what do you normally do is you go back to drinking,

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right? so the difference was I had a Chad and

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I have a mutual friend a woman named Lori Waller

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and Lori is a psychologist and I was talking

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to her casually like she called me in fact to

00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:25.490
just say happy birthday I was on the phone with

00:14:25.490 --> 00:14:27.450
her I said well you know I went up getting hammered

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last night and I think that's it for me I'm gonna

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stop drinking she said well how serious are you

00:14:32.429 --> 00:14:36.250
about stopping drinking and I said well I'm really

00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:39.009
serious I'm never doing it again And she said,

00:14:39.090 --> 00:14:43.230
well, I know that you have a great constitution.

00:14:43.269 --> 00:14:45.830
I'm sure that you can pull that off. But most

00:14:45.830 --> 00:14:49.210
people that don't find a program fail. And then

00:14:49.210 --> 00:14:51.330
I asked a very difficult question. I said, hold

00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:53.570
on. You sound like you were waiting for this

00:14:53.570 --> 00:14:56.870
conversation to happen. And she said, well, I

00:14:56.870 --> 00:14:59.190
knew that eventually we would have this conversation.

00:14:59.250 --> 00:15:01.470
That will be Lori. That will be Lori for sure.

00:15:01.629 --> 00:15:04.929
Yeah. And then I said, oh, shit. And she said,

00:15:04.970 --> 00:15:06.590
well, do you have any friends that are like in

00:15:06.590 --> 00:15:08.309
a program or anything? It doesn't particularly

00:15:08.309 --> 00:15:12.710
have to be AA, but why don't you call them? And

00:15:12.710 --> 00:15:14.409
I said, well, I've got this great friend of mine.

00:15:14.509 --> 00:15:17.029
I know he's in AA. And she said, well, hang up

00:15:17.029 --> 00:15:20.090
the phone with me and call him. And this bud

00:15:20.090 --> 00:15:22.870
of mine, who I'll let remain anonymous, but I

00:15:22.870 --> 00:15:25.230
called him on the phone. And I was like, so I'm

00:15:25.230 --> 00:15:26.909
thinking about stopping drinking all these things.

00:15:27.149 --> 00:15:32.190
And I must have called on a Monday. And the AA

00:15:32.190 --> 00:15:34.870
meetings that I attend are on Tuesday mornings

00:15:34.870 --> 00:15:38.269
and Thursday mornings. And he said, well, it's

00:15:38.269 --> 00:15:40.090
weird. He said, there's an AA meeting tomorrow

00:15:40.090 --> 00:15:43.110
morning. It's my home meeting. It's at 730 AM

00:15:43.110 --> 00:15:45.269
tomorrow. And I took a breath and I started to

00:15:45.269 --> 00:15:47.110
answer. And I looked down and the phone was dead.

00:15:47.269 --> 00:15:52.149
He just hung up. Oh, shit. Oh. And so I was like

00:15:52.149 --> 00:15:56.049
trapped. Wow. And so I'm sharing this story for

00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:58.769
anybody else. I don't hold any judgments to anybody

00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:00.970
that's dealt with addiction. But I showed up

00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:02.570
at the first meeting. And the craziest thing,

00:16:02.629 --> 00:16:05.929
I was outside at 730 AM. I'm like, what the hell

00:16:05.929 --> 00:16:09.110
am I doing here? I'm not an alcoholic. I'm fine.

00:16:10.090 --> 00:16:12.850
And then I just kept on thinking, but you drove

00:16:12.850 --> 00:16:14.210
all this way to come to the meeting. What are

00:16:14.210 --> 00:16:15.789
you doing sitting outside? You ought to at least

00:16:15.789 --> 00:16:21.700
go in. So my secondary impulse was, I'll listen

00:16:21.700 --> 00:16:23.740
and observe, but I'm not going to say anything.

00:16:23.860 --> 00:16:28.080
I'm not going to really participate. And as this

00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.340
sharing happened around the room, people just

00:16:30.340 --> 00:16:32.679
started sharing their stories. I didn't know

00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:34.620
this now, but I know it now. The most important

00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:37.460
person in the room is their first visit to an

00:16:37.460 --> 00:16:41.620
AA meeting. And everybody just started sharing

00:16:41.620 --> 00:16:45.000
about In particular, the topic of the day was

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.700
all the rationalizations that people have. Like,

00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:50.139
oh, I only have two glasses of wine at lunch,

00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.059
and I only have martinis at this time of the

00:16:53.059 --> 00:16:56.139
day, or I only drink beer, not the hard stuff,

00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:57.080
and all these things. And I'm sitting there going.

00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:00.120
I can have champagne and tequila. Yes. Yeah.

00:17:02.100 --> 00:17:05.319
Our boy, Patrick. That's how you cut the tequila.

00:17:05.930 --> 00:17:08.349
It's one of the most famous stories in the band,

00:17:08.349 --> 00:17:11.670
but yes, it's true. I can only have champagne

00:17:11.670 --> 00:17:13.690
and tequila. I gotta stick away from the beer.

00:17:16.690 --> 00:17:19.009
But eventually, as they round -robed and kind

00:17:19.009 --> 00:17:21.849
of went around the room, I thought to myself,

00:17:23.109 --> 00:17:25.809
because I'm a pretty impulsive person, I was

00:17:25.809 --> 00:17:27.869
like, oh, I can either come back for two or three

00:17:27.869 --> 00:17:30.549
of these or just rip this band -aid off right

00:17:30.549 --> 00:17:34.019
now. And I said, you know, Hey, my name is Chad

00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:35.980
Taylor and I'm an alcoholic and I said it for

00:17:35.980 --> 00:17:40.539
the very first time. And, uh, wow, that, that

00:17:40.539 --> 00:17:42.839
felt good to even say it again. It felt brand

00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.619
new just then, but, uh, you know, it's like,

00:17:45.619 --> 00:17:49.279
uh, laying down prostrate and saying, you know,

00:17:49.299 --> 00:17:52.000
just handing yourself over to the universe. And

00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:55.359
I, you know, so my process was one, I had to

00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:58.319
recognize I was powerless to the effects of alcohol.

00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:00.259
And that's the first thing they teach you in

00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:02.900
that program. And that was great. Like, I put

00:18:02.900 --> 00:18:04.759
down the bottle. I did that. Like, you know,

00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:06.559
there's a million great songs about putting down

00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.720
the bottle. I did that. But honestly, the biggest

00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:12.480
difference in my life and the only reason why

00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.900
I'm here and talking to Chad was what I recognized

00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:20.519
was I had this very, very, very, very long list

00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:24.500
of resentments. Every human I knew in my life

00:18:24.500 --> 00:18:27.339
was on that list. Every person. My mom, my dad,

00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:31.230
my brother, probably my sisters. Of course my

00:18:31.230 --> 00:18:33.529
bandmates and all my friends everybody was on

00:18:33.529 --> 00:18:35.750
the list I could tell you all their freaking

00:18:35.750 --> 00:18:37.569
faults and all the things that they had wrong

00:18:37.569 --> 00:18:41.230
with them and that list of resentments was so

00:18:41.230 --> 00:18:44.849
long and Through the big book and a what I recognized

00:18:44.849 --> 00:18:47.289
is the number one pathway back to drinking right

00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:50.730
is to hold on to those resentments and After

00:18:50.730 --> 00:18:55.970
that that led into forgiveness. So Yeah, in my

00:18:55.970 --> 00:18:58.730
practice, what I believe is that because I prayed

00:18:58.730 --> 00:19:02.289
for Jack Gracie every single day that I got him

00:19:02.289 --> 00:19:07.210
back. I love it, dude. That is a touching story

00:19:07.210 --> 00:19:11.250
and cheers for sure. It sounds like when you

00:19:11.250 --> 00:19:13.250
were at that meeting and you were able to say

00:19:13.250 --> 00:19:15.109
those words for the first time, it was almost

00:19:15.109 --> 00:19:19.930
like a freeing moment. I hear I'm here with people.

00:19:20.130 --> 00:19:22.349
I'm saying this out loud and there's people around

00:19:22.349 --> 00:19:23.970
that kind of been through here and it almost

00:19:23.970 --> 00:19:26.470
seems like it was like a freeing moment for you

00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:29.170
rather than something like where you were admitting

00:19:29.170 --> 00:19:31.029
like a fault of yours or something. It seemed

00:19:31.029 --> 00:19:33.910
like it opened you rather than closed. Yeah.

00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:36.710
And the weirdest thing is and I really do truly

00:19:36.710 --> 00:19:38.990
mean this. I was literally the last person to

00:19:38.990 --> 00:19:42.609
know. I picked a day several months into sobriety

00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:44.789
and called it like siblings day where I was going

00:19:44.789 --> 00:19:48.589
to admit. you know my alcoholism to like my my

00:19:48.589 --> 00:19:52.809
brother and my sisters and uh it was really funny

00:19:52.809 --> 00:19:54.769
you know i prepared this like kind of message

00:19:54.769 --> 00:19:57.309
that i went up copy and pasting to each of them

00:19:57.309 --> 00:20:00.349
and i full -blown expected that they write back

00:20:00.349 --> 00:20:03.789
and say like who you oh my god but they were

00:20:03.789 --> 00:20:05.690
like it was almost like everybody wrote back

00:20:05.690 --> 00:20:09.369
and said yeah it's like about time wow and i

00:20:09.369 --> 00:20:12.009
thought holy shit i'm the last guy to know and

00:20:12.009 --> 00:20:15.940
of course you know john You've had the great

00:20:15.940 --> 00:20:19.440
honor of getting to know my good bud Chad, but

00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.000
we spent a lifetime together. And for much of

00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.140
that lifetime, Chad was in a band with an alcoholic.

00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:29.319
So that's a big, and it's a big problematic thing.

00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:32.259
Yeah, for sure. It caused more problems on our

00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:34.400
band than what I would have really recognized.

00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:36.880
Do you think it was easy on Ed, Chad, or Patrick

00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.960
to be in a band where they, I'm sure quietly

00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:42.549
that they were concerned about me. I was going

00:20:42.549 --> 00:20:45.509
to say, Chad, did you, uh, periods where I was,

00:20:45.710 --> 00:20:47.450
but it's always seen like, I mean, there were

00:20:47.450 --> 00:20:49.809
periods where he would drink more than usual

00:20:49.809 --> 00:20:52.490
and then he would kind of cut back. And so there

00:20:52.490 --> 00:20:54.970
were periods where I was, where I could, you

00:20:54.970 --> 00:20:57.589
know, could say I was concerned, but you were

00:20:57.589 --> 00:20:59.690
talking most of it up to just rock star life

00:20:59.690 --> 00:21:02.809
hood. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't, I never

00:21:02.809 --> 00:21:07.049
perceived there to be like a problem, but you

00:21:07.049 --> 00:21:09.490
know, or I would have said something. It just

00:21:09.490 --> 00:21:12.089
felt like, oh, he's getting a little drunk, but

00:21:12.089 --> 00:21:14.750
then it would be okay for a while. So, I mean,

00:21:14.950 --> 00:21:18.430
Patrick, Patrick was, you know, he's self -admitted,

00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:21.230
admitted alcoholic too, but Patrick was much

00:21:21.230 --> 00:21:27.289
more like shit -faced drunk than Chad would have

00:21:27.289 --> 00:21:29.230
his moments like that. And Patrick was more consistent

00:21:29.230 --> 00:21:30.829
with it. And then Patrick kind of cleaned himself

00:21:30.829 --> 00:21:34.980
up and, you know. He had his own path to that,

00:21:35.059 --> 00:21:38.180
to doing that. But that's where the famous, I

00:21:38.180 --> 00:21:39.700
can have champagne and tequila. That was one

00:21:39.700 --> 00:21:44.099
of his famous lines. Where he got sober and then

00:21:44.099 --> 00:21:46.039
came back and was like, I can have champagne.

00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:48.960
Let's put champagne back on the rider for me.

00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:51.039
We're like, okay. And we're just kind of thinking,

00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.160
well, he's a big boy. And then one day we showed

00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:55.079
up to a gig in South Carolina and he just goes

00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.279
up to the bar and he's like, I can have champagne

00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:03.199
and tequila. We're like, okay. We got this. Love

00:22:03.199 --> 00:22:05.799
it. And yeah, what's weird about our group, it

00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:07.460
wasn't like one of us said, yeah, no, that's

00:22:07.460 --> 00:22:09.880
not a good idea. Yeah, we might have all been

00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:12.980
thinking it, but we're just like, you know, boy,

00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:15.059
I guess he knows what he's doing, you know, and

00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:17.640
I have to say something here that's like really

00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.319
an admission in this moment. Have you ever seen

00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.839
like, you know, one of those hostage scenes where

00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:25.279
the hostage taker puts the person in front of

00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:28.980
them and it shields them and protects them? Is

00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:31.470
this like the Stockholm syndrome? Patrick was

00:22:31.470 --> 00:22:34.690
my hostage. I put Patrick out in front of me.

00:22:34.690 --> 00:22:37.109
It'd be like, well, look at Patrick. He's wasted.

00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:40.170
Right. I got it. He wouldn't pay attention to

00:22:40.170 --> 00:22:44.609
me. Right. You know, as long as I had somebody

00:22:44.609 --> 00:22:46.529
else in the bunch that was just a little bit

00:22:46.529 --> 00:22:48.809
more fucked up than me, then you wouldn't notice

00:22:48.809 --> 00:22:53.789
me. You calculated. Well, every alcoholic is.

00:22:54.750 --> 00:22:58.210
That's probably an interesting thing to really

00:22:58.210 --> 00:23:02.339
disclose even about myself is that the drinking

00:23:02.339 --> 00:23:05.400
has a lot to do with an incredibly hyperactive

00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:09.559
brain. I've learned so much about myself through

00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:11.940
things that I would have never investigated through

00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:17.680
sobriety. And for example, just even my relationship

00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:21.460
with music, all of a sudden I realized, well,

00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:26.289
part of my soothing was to play the guitar. That

00:23:26.289 --> 00:23:28.390
was like a major, major factor, right? So the

00:23:28.390 --> 00:23:30.390
thing that made me feel whole and made me feel

00:23:30.390 --> 00:23:33.210
comfortable and normal away from the bottle was

00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:37.329
music. And then imagine if the people and the

00:23:37.329 --> 00:23:40.269
relationships that you were making music with,

00:23:40.890 --> 00:23:43.450
if there was toxicity within those relationships

00:23:43.450 --> 00:23:46.589
and then suddenly playing music started to also

00:23:46.589 --> 00:23:50.029
feel toxic, then the only escape for me was the

00:23:50.029 --> 00:23:52.819
bottle. Yeah, then it became the bottle and I

00:23:52.819 --> 00:23:56.079
tried guys so desperately to be a good husband

00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:00.319
and a good father But I look back on that and

00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:02.299
you know the people that I impacted the most

00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:04.799
I mean God bless my bandmates, but my wife and

00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:08.740
children I mean I put them through hell and Like

00:24:08.740 --> 00:24:12.799
when when the tour ended and I went home I was

00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:16.839
still that guy And it got pretty bad even to

00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:20.089
the point actually on tour. I had handlers At

00:24:20.089 --> 00:24:22.990
home, I don't have handlers, right? So like when

00:24:22.990 --> 00:24:25.730
I started, you know, waking up in my driveway

00:24:25.730 --> 00:24:27.869
with my car still running and the sun was coming

00:24:27.869 --> 00:24:29.750
up and I was just like trying to figure out how

00:24:29.750 --> 00:24:32.329
the hell I got home. I recognize, you know, that's

00:24:32.329 --> 00:24:35.990
probably not a very good trait. Yeah. And I share

00:24:35.990 --> 00:24:39.170
this stuff openly, by the way, AA is an anonymous

00:24:39.170 --> 00:24:41.809
program, but I share it openly because one of

00:24:41.809 --> 00:24:44.990
the things I recognized was I was like, I want

00:24:44.990 --> 00:24:48.109
accountability globally. I don't want to be the

00:24:48.109 --> 00:24:50.750
guy that's like, I snuck off to South Africa

00:24:50.750 --> 00:24:53.109
and I'm in a bar and squirreled away having a

00:24:53.109 --> 00:24:55.670
drink. Part of being open and having a platform

00:24:55.670 --> 00:24:57.490
like this is somebody would probably walk over

00:24:57.490 --> 00:24:58.950
to me and be like, I don't think you're supposed

00:24:58.950 --> 00:25:02.650
to be here. Yeah. I'm glad you did that, dude.

00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:04.710
You said something that I want to touch on is

00:25:04.710 --> 00:25:06.509
that, you know, like a lot of people in your

00:25:06.509 --> 00:25:10.089
life, you know, maybe saw this going around on

00:25:10.089 --> 00:25:11.789
and didn't kind of say anything to you. And I

00:25:11.789 --> 00:25:13.829
think that happens a lot in the entertainment

00:25:13.829 --> 00:25:17.140
community. speaking specifically like Kurt Cobain,

00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.980
for instance, everybody knew he was a raging

00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:22.960
heroin addict and nobody stepped in to try to

00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:24.839
say, hey, dude, maybe you should stop this before

00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:27.339
it gets crazy and just kind of let that stuff

00:25:27.339 --> 00:25:30.279
go on and snowball. And it seems like a theme.

00:25:30.740 --> 00:25:33.539
Yeah. What we do on being on the road, it is

00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:35.680
it is a conducive environment for it because

00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:38.720
you can get whatever you want. Everyone's saying

00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.180
yes to you. You're you know, if you're in a band

00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:44.640
like we were. or we are whatever it's you you

00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.819
have handlers like Chad said and they their job

00:25:46.819 --> 00:25:48.599
is to make you happy so whatever you fucking

00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:52.640
ask for they will go get I mean yeah from alcohol

00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:54.900
all the way down to like the most serious drugs

00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:57.079
not that we ever did that kind of stuff but you

00:25:57.079 --> 00:25:59.240
know they'll they'll go get you they'll go score

00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:00.660
you heroin they're like someone will go fucking

00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:03.640
do it if you ask for like and so it's it's just

00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:05.940
a whole environment of yeah whatever whatever

00:26:05.940 --> 00:26:08.700
you guys need to be happy to get on stage You

00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:10.619
know, just keep them on stage, keep them happy.

00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.519
Whatever it takes you to take those feelings

00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:15.680
and bury them deep inside and never let them

00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:17.859
up. And just get on stage and make everybody

00:26:17.859 --> 00:26:19.700
money. And that's, you know, that's the environment

00:26:19.700 --> 00:26:22.200
you're in. Yeah, the machine. They don't want

00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.920
to stop that from going on. A bunch of comments

00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:28.119
here. Chad Taylor, they want to know. I'll put

00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:30.700
it up on the screen here. How inebriated you

00:26:30.700 --> 00:26:32.259
were when you jumped off stage. Chad brought

00:26:32.259 --> 00:26:34.900
this up, I think, last Tuesday. You went off

00:26:34.900 --> 00:26:37.799
stage and like this concert of the stop. Yeah.

00:26:39.959 --> 00:26:42.779
Yeah, I was probably three quarters of the way

00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:44.740
through a bottle of Jack Daniels. That was the

00:26:44.740 --> 00:26:48.119
gracious few routine. I would always take a bottle

00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.039
of Jack. I mean, I learned this from a guy that

00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:54.079
I consider a father figure. And he'll be mad

00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.380
that I'm telling this story. But he learned it

00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:59.759
from Led Zeppelin, OK? They would take a bottle

00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:01.779
of Jack Daniels, and they would just slightly

00:27:01.779 --> 00:27:03.940
crack the top. And then they would hit the top

00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:06.289
of the bottle, and the cap would go flying. Because

00:27:06.289 --> 00:27:08.509
the point was you didn't need the cap because

00:27:08.509 --> 00:27:11.490
the bottle was going to get finished. So I'd

00:27:11.490 --> 00:27:14.529
do that before every show. And I would nip at

00:27:14.529 --> 00:27:17.910
the bottle just direct. Why would you want to

00:27:17.910 --> 00:27:20.269
mess with ice or something? And then I'd walk

00:27:20.269 --> 00:27:22.990
on stage and I'd just sit that back on my guitar

00:27:22.990 --> 00:27:26.450
amp and drink. And we were at the Double Door

00:27:26.450 --> 00:27:29.589
in Chicago with the Gracious Few. And we were

00:27:29.589 --> 00:27:32.490
at the last song of the set. And by the way,

00:27:32.569 --> 00:27:37.410
I had like. I had enough self -control to basically

00:27:37.410 --> 00:27:42.089
always be able to play a pretty good show. But

00:27:42.089 --> 00:27:44.549
knowing that we were coming towards the end of

00:27:44.549 --> 00:27:47.349
the set, I was probably starting to pour on heavier,

00:27:47.890 --> 00:27:51.589
looking for the after -show effect. And to be

00:27:51.589 --> 00:27:53.549
fair to anybody that ever wonders, I didn't fall

00:27:53.549 --> 00:27:55.710
off the stage or anything. I told fans at the

00:27:55.710 --> 00:27:57.950
front, because I came up with a harebrained scheme

00:27:57.950 --> 00:27:59.569
right in the middle of the song, that I was going

00:27:59.569 --> 00:28:02.829
to jump into the crowd. And I told them to move.

00:28:02.950 --> 00:28:06.849
And I jumped from I just need to preface this

00:28:06.849 --> 00:28:09.910
and say I was in cowboy boots. Oh, wow. I jumped

00:28:09.910 --> 00:28:13.609
from a stage that was about shoulder height from

00:28:13.609 --> 00:28:16.390
the stage down onto the floor. And it was, you

00:28:16.390 --> 00:28:19.190
know, like solid wood floor. And when I hit,

00:28:19.369 --> 00:28:22.130
I think that the angle of boot just instantly

00:28:22.130 --> 00:28:25.190
severed my quad tendon. Oof. And I fell down

00:28:25.190 --> 00:28:28.819
on the ground. And I will say this, bizarrely,

00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:32.039
I'm happy I had about half a bottle of Jack Daniels.

00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:37.940
That helped. Yeah, that was crazy. But the crazier

00:28:37.940 --> 00:28:40.559
part of all that is that I finished the tour.

00:28:41.980 --> 00:28:43.980
Do you finish the tour after that? You did finish.

00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.259
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. The fucking blown out knee.

00:28:47.930 --> 00:28:50.529
You must have definitely had some Jack Daniels

00:28:50.529 --> 00:28:53.170
helping you there. Well, and then at that point,

00:28:53.250 --> 00:28:55.130
that was Jack Daniels and then painkillers all

00:28:55.130 --> 00:28:57.529
at the same time. I was suddenly Johnny Cash.

00:28:58.309 --> 00:29:01.529
Dangerous combo. Yeah, really not healthy. And

00:29:01.529 --> 00:29:03.789
then actually, it's kind of funny because at

00:29:03.789 --> 00:29:06.410
the end of that tour, I know it was around Christmas

00:29:06.410 --> 00:29:08.769
time that I had to come home and get surgery.

00:29:09.250 --> 00:29:10.769
And really, that has a lot to do with the end

00:29:10.769 --> 00:29:13.619
of The Gracious Few. I got, I had to go in and

00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:16.220
get surgery and then you have to have your leg

00:29:16.220 --> 00:29:18.839
and an exoskeleton on this stuff. Cause it's

00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:20.700
a quad tendon. It's the largest muscle in your

00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:23.599
body. And they had to re attach it. And Kevin

00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.240
Martin called me up and said, dude, while you're

00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:28.819
recovering, right. I got to, I owe the record

00:29:28.819 --> 00:29:30.920
label candle box album. I want to make a candle

00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:35.059
box album. And, uh, I kind of knew at that point,

00:29:35.059 --> 00:29:36.819
I was like, well, we'll never come back to the

00:29:36.819 --> 00:29:40.309
gracious to you because you know, he'll have

00:29:40.309 --> 00:29:42.690
to tour in support of Candlebox and in support

00:29:42.690 --> 00:29:47.829
of an album. And just knowing that, oh my God,

00:29:47.950 --> 00:29:52.410
did my depression, and you think like, oh, well,

00:29:52.410 --> 00:29:55.670
that's when you would get sober. No, I got, it

00:29:55.670 --> 00:29:58.250
was like way worse. I couldn't work. I couldn't

00:29:58.250 --> 00:30:02.069
do the thing that I love to do. The Gracious

00:30:02.069 --> 00:30:05.190
Few was not the most financially responsible

00:30:05.190 --> 00:30:07.700
thing, chatter, I ever did. Oh, Chad Patrick

00:30:07.700 --> 00:30:11.940
and I ever did. And, you know, as that was kind

00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:14.019
of coming to a close, I was like, God, you know,

00:30:14.059 --> 00:30:15.940
what am I going to do? There was no live. There

00:30:15.940 --> 00:30:20.599
was no Ed. We had we never even contemplated

00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:22.440
doing that. I was trying to kind of like laying

00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.660
in my bed thinking, well, like, how the hell

00:30:26.660 --> 00:30:29.559
did I wind up here? And I mean, anybody who listened

00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:32.680
to the story would know, well, geez, all that

00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:34.380
drinking probably didn't help. But I'm telling

00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:37.609
you, like I was first of all, Psychologically,

00:30:38.210 --> 00:30:41.990
I never dealt with Ed leaving the band. When

00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:44.390
Ed left the band in 2009 and then we started

00:30:44.390 --> 00:30:47.009
Gracious Hue and all those things, I actually,

00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:48.849
Chad Gracie gets all the credit for the Gracious

00:30:48.849 --> 00:30:52.250
Hue because I told both Chad and Patrick, that's

00:30:52.250 --> 00:30:55.390
it. I'm never doing music again. Bad touch, bad

00:30:55.390 --> 00:30:58.829
feeling. Don't want anything to do with it. And

00:30:58.829 --> 00:31:02.089
Gracie kept calling me, dude, what are you doing?

00:31:02.309 --> 00:31:03.970
What are you doing? We need songs. We got to

00:31:03.970 --> 00:31:06.269
get in a room. We got to play. and, you know,

00:31:06.329 --> 00:31:08.130
we got in a room and the first song that we put

00:31:08.130 --> 00:31:11.650
together was Honest Man. That was before Live

00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:13.789
ended though, because we made Honest Man and

00:31:13.789 --> 00:31:18.049
then Ed came up with Believe and we were like,

00:31:18.109 --> 00:31:23.490
okay. So let me ask you this, this is a good

00:31:23.490 --> 00:31:26.930
point. So Honest Man was more the vision you

00:31:26.930 --> 00:31:31.250
guys saw for that song rather than Believe. Well,

00:31:31.250 --> 00:31:33.690
I mean, we wrote the music to it and then that's

00:31:33.690 --> 00:31:35.529
what they came up with. And we were just kind

00:31:35.529 --> 00:31:38.450
of like, we played it once in concert. It was,

00:31:38.450 --> 00:31:41.190
you know, lackluster. And then, and then Kevin

00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:43.109
got ahold of that. It was like, holy shit, that's,

00:31:43.109 --> 00:31:46.250
that's bad ass. Yeah. Well, there's just a big

00:31:46.250 --> 00:31:47.930
difference. Like you could definitely hear like

00:31:47.930 --> 00:31:51.369
the, the bulk of the song in believe and, and

00:31:51.369 --> 00:31:53.690
honest man are the same, but yeah, the, the,

00:31:53.690 --> 00:31:55.690
to the mixed, I guess the different takes from

00:31:55.690 --> 00:31:59.420
the two lead singers. And just the honest man

00:31:59.420 --> 00:32:01.759
sounded harder when you heard it, like it just

00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:04.380
had a grunge sound to it. Well, we only made

00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:07.059
it really made a demo of it that Ed sang to it.

00:32:07.059 --> 00:32:09.579
So we didn't go. I just heard a concert version.

00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:11.839
I don't think I ever heard even a studio. So,

00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:13.319
yeah, that's that's the only time we played it

00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:16.559
out live, some casino. But yeah, anyway, it was.

00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:22.200
Gotcha. Somebody said, were they talking about

00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.099
this for Chad Taylor, that the Asbury Park was

00:32:25.099 --> 00:32:27.490
the show you fell? No, it was Chicago. I don't

00:32:27.490 --> 00:32:31.710
know. Respectfully, Justin, it was Chicago. Unless

00:32:31.710 --> 00:32:35.410
he fell off another time. Right. Maybe he felt

00:32:35.410 --> 00:32:37.329
around at that show, but he didn't jump off the

00:32:37.329 --> 00:32:40.569
stage and swear. Trust me. I remember when my

00:32:40.569 --> 00:32:42.630
quad tendon got severed. Yeah, because he went

00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:44.650
to the emergency. He had to go to the emergency

00:32:44.650 --> 00:32:46.430
room in fucking downtown Chicago that night.

00:32:46.450 --> 00:32:48.309
We were just like, oh, is he going to die in

00:32:48.309 --> 00:32:51.700
the emergency room from gunshots? Yeah. Oh, this

00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:53.859
is great. Somebody just wrote, what do you think

00:32:53.859 --> 00:32:55.960
of the similarities of Honest Man and Blow by

00:32:55.960 --> 00:33:00.559
Ed Sheeran? Oh, yeah. Oh, that's right. That's

00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:03.500
right. Pretty funny. I may have signed. I may

00:33:03.500 --> 00:33:05.359
have signed an agreement that said that I can't

00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.279
talk about that. Right. I didn't hear this song.

00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:10.140
Is there is there strong similarities? Oh, wait.

00:33:10.220 --> 00:33:12.099
So you just said you can't talk about it. Holy.

00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:15.880
I want to say that. I want to say this. We may

00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:20.329
have written that. Ah. All right. So you heard

00:33:20.329 --> 00:33:24.230
that here, folks. Yeah. Mr. Troy Garman says,

00:33:24.250 --> 00:33:27.029
how hard was it for CT to just go along with

00:33:27.029 --> 00:33:29.109
the Ed stuff when it was obvious the direction

00:33:29.109 --> 00:33:32.130
of the band was changing? Well, this is, this

00:33:32.130 --> 00:33:35.230
is I think a good time to put up that chart that

00:33:35.230 --> 00:33:41.250
we can talk about this. Let's go to the chart,

00:33:41.250 --> 00:33:44.990
go to the chart, bring up the charts. Here we

00:33:44.990 --> 00:33:49.970
go. Now I need a pointer. Well, if you can you

00:33:49.970 --> 00:33:54.869
see my mouse, does it work or no? So the so the

00:33:54.869 --> 00:33:58.309
blue line as we see here, Chad, you want to do

00:33:58.309 --> 00:34:00.430
this or you want me to do it? No, I like you

00:34:00.430 --> 00:34:03.809
doing it. You're doing a line represents album

00:34:03.809 --> 00:34:09.110
sales for life. OK, the red dotted line represents

00:34:09.110 --> 00:34:11.590
Ed's amount of ownership in the songwriting.

00:34:13.849 --> 00:34:17.820
So as you see. The more he owned in the songwriting

00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:21.079
or claimed in the songwriting, the less successful

00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:26.300
we were. And that's the chart. And sorry, I was

00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:28.400
moving that chart around while you were doing

00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:31.760
that. I was trying to get the best portrait up

00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.800
there. Yeah. The point is that don't lie. I mean,

00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.539
I once heard it said that numbers don't lie.

00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:42.820
No, numbers don't lie. Yeah. And I also want

00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:46.769
to say that what we've Chad and I have basically,

00:34:47.389 --> 00:34:50.210
just through the discussion of the past and what's

00:34:50.210 --> 00:34:53.809
going on presently, we just figured out that

00:34:53.809 --> 00:34:56.610
Patrick Chad and I were always about life. Ed

00:34:56.610 --> 00:35:01.150
was always about Ed. And maybe that was Ed in

00:35:01.150 --> 00:35:02.929
life, but he was all about himself. We were about

00:35:02.929 --> 00:35:04.929
the collective. We were about getting in a room,

00:35:04.989 --> 00:35:07.070
writing songs together, doing it old school.

00:35:07.389 --> 00:35:09.510
The way we did it, the way we wrote, had the

00:35:09.510 --> 00:35:12.289
most success as a band is obvious on that chart.

00:35:12.590 --> 00:35:15.150
We were in a room. hashing out the song, someone

00:35:15.150 --> 00:35:17.250
will bring an idea like suddenly drama, or Ed

00:35:17.250 --> 00:35:19.650
brings in I alone, and we get in there and we

00:35:19.650 --> 00:35:21.349
fucking put it together and it becomes a live

00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:23.070
song because the four of us are working on it.

00:35:23.949 --> 00:35:26.869
Or conversely, I would, I mean, I was the guy

00:35:26.869 --> 00:35:28.690
for a long time would be like, I don't like that

00:35:28.690 --> 00:35:32.269
idea. I don't even want to play it. And I just

00:35:32.269 --> 00:35:34.449
got at some point, I got tired of being the dick.

00:35:34.489 --> 00:35:36.170
So I just stopped doing that as well. But that

00:35:36.170 --> 00:35:38.969
kind of coincided with when it came to you, Chad,

00:35:38.969 --> 00:35:40.469
and just said, I don't want to write your ideas

00:35:40.469 --> 00:35:43.690
anymore. And that was about Distance to Here,

00:35:43.829 --> 00:35:45.809
right? Right after Distance to Here? Yeah, it

00:35:45.809 --> 00:35:49.670
was about so Peter Friedman passed away in 2003.

00:35:50.150 --> 00:35:53.349
Right. And that's pretty much the beginning of

00:35:53.349 --> 00:35:58.150
the end of the collaborative period. Funny enough,

00:35:58.869 --> 00:36:05.210
when we collaborate. You know, it's it's a magic

00:36:05.210 --> 00:36:08.030
that's insane how I would describe it to people

00:36:08.030 --> 00:36:10.869
that, you know, wonder how a band comes together

00:36:10.869 --> 00:36:14.260
and all these things. If you've ever tried to

00:36:14.260 --> 00:36:18.920
bake anything, baking is like a very, very exact

00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:25.500
process. And so at the age of 15, we had four

00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:29.239
distinct ingredients, a Chad Gracie ingredient,

00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:31.800
a Patrick Dahlheimer ingredient, an Ed Gualchick

00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.000
ingredient, and a Chad Taylor ingredient. And

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:38.420
we threw them in a baking dish and we put it

00:36:38.420 --> 00:36:41.199
in the oven at 350 and it came out a fucking

00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:45.059
perfect cake. And what you don't do is ever fuck

00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:48.420
with that recipe. You don't change the recipe.

00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:52.300
Yeah, agreed. Coke, new Coke, whatever it is,

00:36:52.340 --> 00:36:54.480
don't change the fucking recipe. The recipe of

00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:59.059
live was one of collaboration. Not one person

00:36:59.059 --> 00:37:02.659
was more important. Oh yeah, Chad brought in

00:37:02.659 --> 00:37:05.239
this song or Brad brought in this song. Who?

00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.360
fucking cares. What really mattered was the collective.

00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:11.539
Yeah. And you have bands like U2 and Metallica,

00:37:11.579 --> 00:37:13.179
like they're all very, they're all collaborative.

00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.340
You've seen, you've seen documenters of them

00:37:15.340 --> 00:37:17.679
working. Have you ever seen a Bono solo tour

00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.599
or a James Hetfield solo tour? No. Right. Right.

00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:25.179
Because they understood what the collective was

00:37:25.179 --> 00:37:29.000
and that's what made it great. Not, not your

00:37:29.179 --> 00:37:31.420
not just your lyrics and melody like oh i'm so

00:37:31.420 --> 00:37:33.340
fucking great all everyone's singing my shit

00:37:33.340 --> 00:37:35.940
so right and somebody oh i mean it's kind of

00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:37.360
funny because somebody just said oh i'm sure

00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:41.059
ed will love this podcast no like ed's one of

00:37:41.059 --> 00:37:45.039
the ingredients exactly like right like when

00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:50.380
i say legitimately that i pray for chad gracy

00:37:50.380 --> 00:37:53.360
for patrick dollheimer i equally pray for ed

00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:57.920
i don't i don't hold that part of that alcoholism

00:37:57.920 --> 00:37:59.760
thing, right, is to find a way into forgiveness,

00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:02.280
like even forgiveness for, like, I don't know,

00:38:02.420 --> 00:38:05.780
who cares if Ed, like, was in it just for himself?

00:38:06.019 --> 00:38:08.500
Like, kind of who cares? But I wish he could

00:38:08.500 --> 00:38:12.880
just give enough to, like, take those ingredients

00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:14.619
and put them back in that pan, because, like,

00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:17.500
damn it, you know, like, we make really great

00:38:17.500 --> 00:38:20.579
cake. I think that's the song, too. Yeah, that's

00:38:20.579 --> 00:38:24.909
a good cake. Yeah. And you know, that's, that's

00:38:24.909 --> 00:38:27.570
the thing. Like, uh, I discussed this with Chad

00:38:27.570 --> 00:38:29.650
as well. Like I'm perfectly willing. And we are

00:38:29.650 --> 00:38:31.869
all three of us are good. The ed ed's a great

00:38:31.869 --> 00:38:34.110
lyricist, great melodies. He's done great, great

00:38:34.110 --> 00:38:35.530
things, but he doesn't want to give that same

00:38:35.530 --> 00:38:37.750
respect back to us. And I don't understand why

00:38:37.750 --> 00:38:42.190
it's crazy. Uh, so, I mean, I think it, I think

00:38:42.190 --> 00:38:45.349
it just goes back to when you guys broke up originally

00:38:45.349 --> 00:38:48.969
in 2009, either whatever happened between there

00:38:48.969 --> 00:38:53.250
and 2016. He got in his head and he would like

00:38:53.250 --> 00:38:54.869
I think he had in his head to just get back in

00:38:54.869 --> 00:38:56.409
and fuck you guys like from the beginning. I

00:38:56.409 --> 00:39:00.349
don't think the 2016 reunion was genuine on his

00:39:00.349 --> 00:39:02.670
part. I think it was almost like I'm going to

00:39:02.670 --> 00:39:04.650
figure out a way to get creative control back

00:39:04.650 --> 00:39:07.349
from from these guys and and fuck them or something

00:39:07.349 --> 00:39:10.170
because it just it doesn't it doesn't add up

00:39:10.170 --> 00:39:12.210
to me for some reason. And you got and you're

00:39:12.210 --> 00:39:15.110
right. The ingredients, the four of you together.

00:39:15.190 --> 00:39:19.369
But you guys really the three of you. Kind of

00:39:19.369 --> 00:39:22.329
did those ingredients in the turn and the gracious

00:39:22.329 --> 00:39:24.989
few. And I'm going to put those albums right

00:39:24.989 --> 00:39:27.349
up against your earlier records, man. Those are

00:39:27.349 --> 00:39:32.150
some fucking banging records. So, I mean, the

00:39:32.150 --> 00:39:34.570
ingredients, you know, it definitely it's magic

00:39:34.570 --> 00:39:36.210
when all four of you are in the group, but it's

00:39:36.210 --> 00:39:39.210
really the three of you guys together making

00:39:39.210 --> 00:39:43.829
some some special shit as well. So, John, what

00:39:43.829 --> 00:39:45.929
you're what you're talking about, though, is

00:39:45.929 --> 00:39:49.369
interesting enough. It's called First Aid. Yes.

00:39:49.889 --> 00:39:56.210
So in 1985, and I write about this extensively

00:39:56.210 --> 00:40:02.889
in my book, in 1985, when the band was literally

00:40:02.889 --> 00:40:06.110
only Jack Gracie, Patrick Dahlheimer and myself,

00:40:06.650 --> 00:40:09.130
and we played the middle school talent show,

00:40:11.289 --> 00:40:16.010
there's nothing like being that young and naive

00:40:16.010 --> 00:40:24.239
and utterly innocent. There couldn't be an ego,

00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:26.820
because we were scared to death to play in front

00:40:26.820 --> 00:40:32.920
of our entire student body. And then this incredible

00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:38.360
rise of teenage girls screaming. Do you hear

00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:42.239
at the Beatles concerts? There's just something

00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:45.420
about that. I just remember, I think Gracie was

00:40:45.420 --> 00:40:48.809
wearing this... really cool Benetton sweater

00:40:48.809 --> 00:40:52.630
that he had gotten. Patrick was dressed in like

00:40:52.630 --> 00:40:54.730
some, he had to own some super cool white t -shirt

00:40:54.730 --> 00:40:57.570
and like a, almost like a James Dean kind of

00:40:57.570 --> 00:41:00.869
effect with his blue jean jacket. And I, I had

00:41:00.869 --> 00:41:03.070
gone out and I bought, cause you know, Holland

00:41:03.070 --> 00:41:04.829
Oates I think at the time wore him, but like

00:41:04.829 --> 00:41:08.190
a skinny tie, you know, cause I thought that'd

00:41:08.190 --> 00:41:13.210
be really cool. So I had a skinny tie and we,

00:41:13.210 --> 00:41:18.050
we played two songs. We started the show, which

00:41:18.050 --> 00:41:22.429
was Jack Gracie's idea, with a U2 song called

00:41:22.429 --> 00:41:26.849
Like A Song. And it's roughly 149 beats per minute,

00:41:26.889 --> 00:41:30.929
which by the way is pretty smoking fast. And

00:41:30.929 --> 00:41:33.769
Gracie started the whole thing, like they said,

00:41:33.809 --> 00:41:36.969
ladies and gentlemen, first aid. And they parted

00:41:36.969 --> 00:41:38.570
the curtains, and we were just standing there,

00:41:38.570 --> 00:41:42.110
you know? And the very first thing the world

00:41:42.110 --> 00:41:44.210
ever heard from any of us was his kick drum.

00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:49.780
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Yo, so this this

00:41:49.780 --> 00:41:53.239
theme of Gracie starting off songs on drums started

00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:55.400
way back then, because like Pain Lies on the

00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:58.559
Riverside is a drum intro that that happened.

00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:00.800
So this started like from your first performance

00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:06.159
ever. Yeah. Wow. Also, people were asking about

00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:08.539
the book in the comments here. The book is not

00:42:08.539 --> 00:42:10.940
out yet. He's he has written the book. He is

00:42:10.940 --> 00:42:13.750
shopping the book. Is that fair enough, Chad?

00:42:14.030 --> 00:42:16.469
Yeah. That's a fair enough thing to say. I just

00:42:16.469 --> 00:42:20.469
finished my second draft. Actually, it's funny

00:42:20.469 --> 00:42:23.389
because that's also a little bit of part of the

00:42:23.389 --> 00:42:26.570
sober journey. When I wrote the first draft of

00:42:26.570 --> 00:42:30.530
the book, I was still drinking and I told all

00:42:30.530 --> 00:42:34.519
these like insane stories about, you know, As

00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:36.820
anybody can imagine a little of the, you know,

00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:38.780
you add millions of dollars into guys in their

00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:42.760
early 20s. It was pretty insane. Sure. And, uh,

00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:45.019
you know, so I tried to like write about it and

00:42:45.019 --> 00:42:47.340
try to remember the reason why it created their

00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:52.059
timeline of, of, uh, the chronology of the band,

00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:56.400
which is like 3000 separate line items was to

00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.420
spark my memory. So I could just remember what

00:42:58.420 --> 00:43:01.460
the hell to write about. And that includes like,

00:43:01.460 --> 00:43:06.980
uh, I went back to all this archival footage

00:43:06.980 --> 00:43:10.179
of news articles. You know, it's very interesting

00:43:10.179 --> 00:43:12.260
because most of live that was built was built

00:43:12.260 --> 00:43:14.880
in the time period pre -internet. So you had

00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.139
to go back and I had to use like, you know, like

00:43:17.139 --> 00:43:19.019
you talked about microfilm and all those things.

00:43:19.019 --> 00:43:22.000
So I got all the old articles on the band because

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.900
it was, I never read that stuff at the time,

00:43:24.900 --> 00:43:27.019
you know, cause you didn't have a mobile phone

00:43:27.019 --> 00:43:28.679
and it wasn't supposed to on the internet when

00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:30.900
you left the town and they wrote an article about

00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:34.489
you, you never saw it. Right. We just left. So

00:43:34.489 --> 00:43:37.650
I wanted to read all that stuff and see what

00:43:37.650 --> 00:43:39.710
was going on. So anyway, my point was I wrote

00:43:39.710 --> 00:43:43.610
this first draft and kind of like laughingly

00:43:43.610 --> 00:43:47.190
wrote about really all my just like, I don't

00:43:47.190 --> 00:43:50.550
want to call it deplorable behavior, but what

00:43:50.550 --> 00:43:53.309
I would consider as a sober guy now unacceptable.

00:43:53.989 --> 00:43:56.789
And then I got sober and then I waited like,

00:43:56.809 --> 00:43:58.829
I don't know what it was almost a year before

00:43:58.829 --> 00:44:01.610
like revisiting a redraft. I needed time away

00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:05.489
from it. And I started reading it in order to

00:44:05.489 --> 00:44:10.210
revise. And I was like, yo, this is problematic

00:44:10.210 --> 00:44:14.150
behavior. I started making notes. And I swear

00:44:14.150 --> 00:44:16.809
to you that part of the cathartic process of

00:44:16.809 --> 00:44:18.429
doing that, I almost tell everybody, you ought

00:44:18.429 --> 00:44:22.630
to write down the story of your life. It suddenly

00:44:22.630 --> 00:44:25.590
hit me. I was like, wow, there are key relationships

00:44:25.590 --> 00:44:29.920
in my life that I've pushed away from me. Anybody

00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:31.820
that's been through the AA process knows that

00:44:31.820 --> 00:44:33.880
there's also, you know, part of that is like

00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:36.880
reconciliation and taking ownership for your

00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:40.000
flaws, your cracks, your crevices. And boy, I

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:45.579
made a list and I had tiers of like first offender,

00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.159
like where I was the worst to, and I tried to

00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:50.300
call those people. And then I had a second tier

00:44:50.300 --> 00:44:51.860
and a third tier. And I'm actually over into

00:44:51.860 --> 00:44:54.440
the third tier, which even involves like, we

00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:57.320
had a manager for the gracious few. Oh my god,

00:44:57.420 --> 00:45:00.119
incredible lady named Deb Klein. She manages

00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:05.440
Melissa Atherage now. Just awesome lady. And

00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:09.519
I'm pretty sure I fired her by literally just

00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:15.480
ghosting her. Like, goodbye. Only a drunk would

00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:18.980
do that. Only an alcoholic, egomaniac, you know,

00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:21.800
self -serving, whatever guy would do something

00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:24.059
like that. So I had to call her up. And she said,

00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:26.300
you know, I never expected to hear from you again

00:45:26.300 --> 00:45:28.800
in my whole life. And I just told her, you know,

00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:30.139
I don't want anything out of the phone call.

00:45:30.219 --> 00:45:31.840
I just want to say, you know, like that was really

00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:35.099
a dick move. And I'm so sorry. I got to tell

00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:37.139
you, there's probably people out there actually

00:45:37.139 --> 00:45:39.639
know somebody that I know from our childhood

00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:41.539
wrote that I was like an asshole to somebody

00:45:41.539 --> 00:45:44.079
at a show. I don't want to say their names are

00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:47.599
out there, but I probably was, you know, that's

00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:51.559
the reality. And the only thing I can do to probably

00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:53.440
make most of those things better is to like heal

00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:56.059
myself and then just be a better person in general.

00:45:56.900 --> 00:46:00.699
Well said and well and way to take accountability

00:46:00.699 --> 00:46:04.679
for things. And that shows how kind of honest

00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:06.659
you're being right now. I had I saw that comment

00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:08.119
up there. I'm like, I'm going to leave this.

00:46:08.250 --> 00:46:10.269
off because I don't want to bring up, you know,

00:46:10.349 --> 00:46:11.989
negative stuff to the show. And then you brought

00:46:11.989 --> 00:46:13.969
it up. So it just shows how much accountability

00:46:13.969 --> 00:46:16.289
you're taking for some of those. But I want I

00:46:16.289 --> 00:46:18.329
want to tell a cool story about that person.

00:46:18.329 --> 00:46:22.090
Screw it. I'll just say it now. So this the person's

00:46:22.090 --> 00:46:26.369
name is Katie Carlson. And if you ever watch

00:46:26.369 --> 00:46:30.530
WKRP in Cincinnati, there was the station manager

00:46:30.530 --> 00:46:34.110
was a guy named Arthur Carlson and her father

00:46:34.110 --> 00:46:38.340
was Art Carlson. And he lived in York, Pennsylvania.

00:46:38.679 --> 00:46:40.719
And that character on that show was actually

00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:43.460
based, well, was based on his name, not really

00:46:43.460 --> 00:46:47.139
on him as a person. But we played Katie Carlson's

00:46:47.139 --> 00:46:51.940
sweet 16 party. And I'm pretty sure Mr. Carlson

00:46:51.940 --> 00:46:54.940
is the guy that actually paid us to do the performance.

00:46:56.460 --> 00:47:00.179
And we were just public affection then. And I

00:47:00.179 --> 00:47:02.639
also remember that we used her little teenage

00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:06.210
bedroom as our dressing room. So I still have

00:47:06.210 --> 00:47:08.489
like really fond and sweet memories of these

00:47:08.489 --> 00:47:10.210
people too. I don't, I don't exactly know what

00:47:10.210 --> 00:47:12.869
I did to be an asshole, but oh my God, I hope

00:47:12.869 --> 00:47:15.849
that's not true, but it probably is. Well, and

00:47:15.849 --> 00:47:18.190
Katie is not with us anymore. Unfortunately.

00:47:18.190 --> 00:47:23.269
Holy shit. I didn't know that chat. Oh my God.

00:47:23.550 --> 00:47:28.530
Couple of years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Jody, Jody Bradford

00:47:28.530 --> 00:47:31.260
still communication through one once in a while.

00:47:31.420 --> 00:47:33.679
Jody Bradford was Katie's best friend back in

00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.099
those days. And I think they remain friends until

00:47:36.099 --> 00:47:39.280
she passed. But yeah. Oh, my God. Wow. Well,

00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:41.800
I was feeling bad before. Now I'm really down

00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:44.880
there. I'm sorry. Well, that's why I was brought

00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:48.400
up. Rest in peace. Yeah, I was respected. Yes.

00:47:49.659 --> 00:47:52.280
C .T. So getting back to that eighth grade town

00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:55.780
show. So how long before that did you pick up

00:47:55.780 --> 00:47:57.980
the guitar and kind of what made you do that?

00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:05.860
Well, I was 10 years old when Santa Claus, underneath

00:48:05.860 --> 00:48:09.219
the Christmas tree at my father's house, brought

00:48:09.219 --> 00:48:16.380
me a 1978 Gibson Les Paul Standard. And I had

00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:22.960
been asking Santa Claus for drums. And I didn't

00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:25.420
really feel... I liked Peter Chris from Kiss.

00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:30.190
But I did feel... Like really honored that like

00:48:30.190 --> 00:48:32.349
I had this like beautiful like you should have

00:48:32.349 --> 00:48:34.670
seen like how fancy this guitar looked I mean

00:48:34.670 --> 00:48:38.349
it was insane and that is not a starter guitar

00:48:38.349 --> 00:48:43.429
for anybody that You know knows anything about

00:48:43.429 --> 00:48:45.989
instruments. That's like a really advanced instrument

00:48:45.989 --> 00:48:48.889
So yeah, and my dad had always told me he said

00:48:48.889 --> 00:48:51.829
I I got you a serious guitar because I wanted

00:48:51.829 --> 00:48:54.590
you to be a serious guitarist a serious musician

00:48:54.590 --> 00:49:00.630
and I started taking lessons at some point after

00:49:00.630 --> 00:49:07.389
then, like Mrs. Epihimer was her name. And I

00:49:07.389 --> 00:49:09.389
quickly figured out that Mrs. Epihimer could

00:49:09.389 --> 00:49:11.210
teach me like Mary had a little lamb, but she

00:49:11.210 --> 00:49:14.769
couldn't teach me rock and roll songs. And so

00:49:14.769 --> 00:49:18.150
I enlisted the help of a man named Don Karn.

00:49:18.789 --> 00:49:22.349
And Don Karn was Chad, Patrick and I are middle

00:49:22.349 --> 00:49:25.119
school band instructor. And I started taking

00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:27.619
private guitar lessons from Mr. Karn after school

00:49:27.619 --> 00:49:30.400
hours at his apartment on Duke Street in York.

00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:34.780
And that is also the very first place that apartment

00:49:34.780 --> 00:49:37.179
is the very first place Chad Patrick and I ever

00:49:37.179 --> 00:49:41.079
played together. Oh, wow. Yep. That's true. Yeah,

00:49:41.179 --> 00:49:45.019
that's right. So we owe the world. You put up

00:49:45.019 --> 00:49:47.940
Jody's Jody Bradford's comment because she's

00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:52.840
she's watching chat. Yes, sir. Let's talk about

00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:57.139
Katie Carlson. so oh yeah thank you jody thank

00:49:57.139 --> 00:50:01.639
you jody hi god it shows you you know this is

00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:05.000
the problem with life everybody gets uh you know

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:07.400
busy living life and and doing all this stuff

00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:11.139
and and life does fly by uh you know interesting

00:50:11.139 --> 00:50:15.260
enough i this is kind of like a running joke

00:50:15.260 --> 00:50:18.139
that's going on but i posted a couple weeks ago

00:50:18.139 --> 00:50:22.179
about a very uh dear friend of ours uh named

00:50:22.179 --> 00:50:25.139
Jimmy Lang that was involved with surf net and

00:50:25.139 --> 00:50:27.019
creating lives very first website and stuff.

00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:31.599
And Jimmy suffered a stroke while in Brazil.

00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:36.079
And Jimmy and I have a long history of sharing

00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:38.320
just like really super funny things with each

00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:41.739
other. And so every year for my birthday, he

00:50:41.739 --> 00:50:47.940
sends me a picture of himself. And if I could

00:50:47.940 --> 00:50:50.920
take this computer and move right now, next to

00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:55.519
my, like literally my bedside stand facing me

00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:58.820
are two photographs of Jimmy. And I wake up every

00:50:58.820 --> 00:51:01.019
day and I think about the guy and I wish his

00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:04.659
health to get better and get well. And then just

00:51:04.659 --> 00:51:07.260
on like the health front, my sister -in -law

00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:11.500
had... stage five kidney failure. This is acute

00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:14.639
sudden kidney failure that we recognize now is

00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:17.500
chronic. And I would be remiss without saying

00:51:17.500 --> 00:51:21.639
that she has a GoFundMe page that's up. I would

00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:23.719
ask anybody, you know, we'll try and share it.

00:51:23.780 --> 00:51:26.159
I know I shared it on my Facebook page. And for

00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:28.000
all the life and this is Matt Gracie's wife.

00:51:28.699 --> 00:51:32.280
Yes. Thank you, Jeff. And your cousin. Well,

00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:36.199
of course. Your cousin's wife, yeah. Yeah, that

00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:42.000
too. And we'll post that link in the description

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.920
of this episode after it airs for sure. Gentlemen,

00:51:45.940 --> 00:51:48.500
now that we got real sad for a second, let's

00:51:48.500 --> 00:51:51.880
get back to good times here and how you three

00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:54.900
started the band first aid and got to that talent

00:51:54.900 --> 00:51:56.280
show. Like, how did that come about? How did

00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:59.320
you guys know you played instruments and how

00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:01.269
did you guys get together? He just basically

00:52:01.269 --> 00:52:03.250
told you the story and Don Karn put us together

00:52:03.250 --> 00:52:05.909
as our music teacher. Oh, I thought, I thought

00:52:05.909 --> 00:52:07.889
that you guys just like practice there afterwards.

00:52:07.889 --> 00:52:09.929
I didn't realize like he set you up originally.

00:52:09.929 --> 00:52:11.610
I thought there was like, you guys went and practiced

00:52:11.610 --> 00:52:14.590
there afterwards. Okay. Nevermind that he basically

00:52:14.590 --> 00:52:16.929
knew I was playing drums and he was giving guitar

00:52:16.929 --> 00:52:19.269
lessons and bass lessons of Patrick and Chad.

00:52:19.269 --> 00:52:21.210
And he was like, you guys should play it. I mean,

00:52:21.210 --> 00:52:23.670
we knew each other. We were in the concert bands

00:52:23.670 --> 00:52:25.550
and stuff together. I played saxophone and Chad

00:52:25.550 --> 00:52:28.269
was playing trumpet. And I've always said Patrick

00:52:28.269 --> 00:52:31.130
is the most, talented musician in the band because

00:52:31.130 --> 00:52:34.230
he can play anything. So, but anyway, so Don

00:52:34.230 --> 00:52:36.389
Karn is the one who said, Hey man, you guys should

00:52:36.389 --> 00:52:38.349
be in a band together. That's, that's how we

00:52:38.349 --> 00:52:43.110
ended up in his house practicing. I too have

00:52:43.110 --> 00:52:46.929
ADHD Chad. So don't mind if things go over my

00:52:46.929 --> 00:52:51.159
head during the conversation. It's, it's bound

00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:52.920
to, it's bound to happen. All right. So, uh,

00:52:52.940 --> 00:52:55.599
shout out, Mr. Karn. Thank you for Aaron. She's

00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:57.260
Lee's on here. What's up, Aaron? He's saying

00:52:57.260 --> 00:52:59.619
Don Karn is retiring this year from at the end

00:52:59.619 --> 00:53:02.079
of the school year. Wow. Still teaching this

00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:04.880
gentleman. Retiring this year. That's amazing.

00:53:05.500 --> 00:53:12.599
I have several times, uh, The Academy of Music

00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:16.519
has a Teachers in Music Award, and I've nominated

00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:19.260
Don Karn several times. And I mean, obviously

00:53:19.260 --> 00:53:21.659
my nominations haven't gone through, but it'd

00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:23.800
be interesting if we get a write -in campaign

00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:29.059
for Don Karn. If anybody I know should have a

00:53:29.059 --> 00:53:31.579
Grammy Award, it should be Don. Oh, for sure.

00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:35.780
Absolutely. 100. And I'm sure the central...

00:53:37.389 --> 00:53:39.269
Pennsylvania rock and roll hall of fame has honored

00:53:39.269 --> 00:53:42.349
this gentleman. Remember the, the, the people

00:53:42.349 --> 00:53:44.969
we had on chat from earlier, they gave your band

00:53:44.969 --> 00:53:48.190
the, the award. They should have him. They should

00:53:48.190 --> 00:53:50.750
give him an award for sure. Oh, Don, absolutely.

00:53:51.130 --> 00:53:54.710
Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Taylor. So what were, I know

00:53:54.710 --> 00:53:57.730
you too was a big musical influence on not just

00:53:57.730 --> 00:53:59.550
you, but the whole band in general, but what

00:53:59.550 --> 00:54:01.829
were some of your personal musical influences

00:54:01.829 --> 00:54:06.349
when you were younger? pretty much steeped in

00:54:06.349 --> 00:54:09.829
what today you would call classic rock, but stuff

00:54:09.829 --> 00:54:13.769
that lean blues oriented. So I was the guy in

00:54:13.769 --> 00:54:17.989
the band listening to ZZ Top. I was listening

00:54:17.989 --> 00:54:22.929
to Cream. I loved Led Zeppelin. The Beatles and

00:54:22.929 --> 00:54:25.650
the Beach Boys probably even came somewhat a

00:54:25.650 --> 00:54:27.869
little bit later in life. Listen, oh my God,

00:54:27.929 --> 00:54:31.289
The Rolling Stones. The Stones are probably my

00:54:31.289 --> 00:54:41.570
favorite band. I was a strange guy. I loved the

00:54:41.570 --> 00:54:44.550
Motown songs. I just couldn't get around the

00:54:44.550 --> 00:54:48.489
songwriting that was on most of the early Motown

00:54:48.489 --> 00:54:51.590
records. That was probably my mom's influence.

00:54:51.690 --> 00:54:55.630
She was really R &B heavy. My father's influence

00:54:55.630 --> 00:55:00.000
would have been blues, classic rock. I did listen

00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:02.980
to some stuff that veered towards metal like

00:55:02.980 --> 00:55:08.000
I love ACDC that's like a really classic band

00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:10.119
and what's funny is what I've learned over times

00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:12.440
is I always gravitated towards bands that had

00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:15.940
fantastic rhythm guitar players and it's weird

00:55:15.940 --> 00:55:17.639
because that's what I really consider myself

00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:20.739
as a rhythm guitar player. I mean I certainly

00:55:20.739 --> 00:55:22.920
can play leads that nobody else can play but

00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:26.570
it's just because I'm so Naturally awkward that

00:55:26.570 --> 00:55:28.429
somehow something that whatever comes out to

00:55:28.429 --> 00:55:30.409
me people go. Well, that's really hard or something

00:55:30.409 --> 00:55:33.650
But to me, it's it's very easy and very natural

00:55:33.650 --> 00:55:37.849
You consider yourself a rhythm guitarist. Yes

00:55:37.849 --> 00:55:41.989
for sure And first and foremost what I want to

00:55:41.989 --> 00:55:44.130
say is that the the reason why I would say that

00:55:44.130 --> 00:55:48.829
and I really focused a lot on this on The gracious

00:55:48.829 --> 00:55:51.150
few as part of the reason why we were brought

00:55:51.150 --> 00:55:56.050
in Shawn Hennessey was Just my forte has always

00:55:56.050 --> 00:55:59.309
been songwriting like that's where I I want to

00:55:59.309 --> 00:56:02.650
I want to Manifest the song and then I want to

00:56:02.650 --> 00:56:05.210
serve the song whatever that means. There's a

00:56:05.210 --> 00:56:09.329
great moment in the leukemia juice video Where

00:56:09.329 --> 00:56:11.929
I almost mistakenly play in a part where there's

00:56:11.929 --> 00:56:15.449
no guitar and I fortunately Like I just muted

00:56:15.449 --> 00:56:17.570
the guitar at the very last second. And if you

00:56:17.570 --> 00:56:20.369
watch feel like I'm smiling because I was like,

00:56:20.369 --> 00:56:22.389
oh, yeah, there's There's no guitar in there.

00:56:22.409 --> 00:56:24.670
I got to just chill out. But like, for example,

00:56:24.769 --> 00:56:27.449
it's like be self -serving, like or I'm sorry,

00:56:27.730 --> 00:56:31.510
serve the song. Don't be self -serving. So even

00:56:31.510 --> 00:56:34.010
if that meant don't play, that's the role I would

00:56:34.010 --> 00:56:38.230
take. Aha. Yes. Serving the music is the key.

00:56:39.570 --> 00:56:41.849
I want to get into the songwriting thing because

00:56:41.849 --> 00:56:44.710
and I also want to say that I think I was unfair

00:56:44.710 --> 00:56:47.670
to you in the past when I was kind of making

00:56:47.670 --> 00:56:52.179
some comments on this. Let's get into some of

00:56:52.179 --> 00:56:54.699
the songwriting for your earlier albums, like

00:56:54.699 --> 00:56:56.559
Mental Jewelry and Throwing Copper, and kind

00:56:56.559 --> 00:56:59.280
of walk us through the process on how that went.

00:57:00.460 --> 00:57:02.199
You know, if you want to start with a song or

00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:05.539
just kind of tell us, you know, on a, you know,

00:57:05.659 --> 00:57:07.199
if you want to go whole album, whatever, however

00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:10.739
you want to go about it. But let's dive into

00:57:10.739 --> 00:57:12.559
how you guys wrote some music back in the day.

00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:15.519
Well, I think where I would start is sort of

00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:18.510
an interesting thing. when we were still public

00:57:18.510 --> 00:57:23.349
affection and in high school, you know, we basically

00:57:23.349 --> 00:57:26.090
knew right away that if we were going to have

00:57:26.090 --> 00:57:30.489
a career as musicians, in particular as a band,

00:57:31.210 --> 00:57:33.369
that we were going to have to write original

00:57:33.369 --> 00:57:39.289
songs. And this is definitely a time period where

00:57:39.289 --> 00:57:43.170
almost all of the early ideas, you know, in Batch

00:57:43.170 --> 00:57:45.500
were coming out of Ed. he was just like writing

00:57:45.500 --> 00:57:48.320
song after song and we were trying to arrange

00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:52.420
them and trying to add our instruments into it

00:57:52.420 --> 00:57:58.619
and you know we all we didn't really say this

00:57:58.619 --> 00:58:01.219
publicly yet but we were all like you know we

00:58:01.219 --> 00:58:03.059
didn't want to go to college we wanted a career

00:58:03.059 --> 00:58:08.920
as a band we were loving making music and there

00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:13.300
was some stress because of that and like stress

00:58:13.420 --> 00:58:15.539
What I mean by stress is like, well, what are

00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:17.340
we gonna do for the rest of our lives? And like

00:58:17.340 --> 00:58:20.019
we won't we don't want to break this up Right,

00:58:20.019 --> 00:58:22.059
and we also didn't want to be forthright with

00:58:22.059 --> 00:58:24.360
our parents or even our peers our friends It

00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:27.019
was like a very closely held secret that this

00:58:27.019 --> 00:58:31.679
was our desire and so and had come to me in confidence

00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:35.880
at some point and said This is too much to put

00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:38.539
all on my shoulders like you you have to write

00:58:38.539 --> 00:58:41.260
to he's basically telling me step up to the plate

00:58:41.500 --> 00:58:43.980
Right. And I remember at the time being like,

00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:47.000
I don't know how to write a song. I'm not a songwriter.

00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:50.079
I don't even know, like, I don't even know how

00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:54.059
you do what you do. I think I barely knew how

00:58:54.059 --> 00:58:55.820
to play the damn guitar at the time, let alone

00:58:55.820 --> 00:59:00.380
write a song. Right. And I mean, I think the

00:59:00.380 --> 00:59:02.300
very first example that you can find of something

00:59:02.300 --> 00:59:06.280
where something was birthed from me and came

00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:08.800
out and came into the world is a song on the

00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:10.840
death of a dictionary called Savior for a Day.

00:59:11.900 --> 00:59:13.980
Oddly, it's the very first song on the Death

00:59:13.980 --> 00:59:20.440
of a Dictionary. And we got in a room with this

00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:23.159
little guitar part. I had an A section, a B section,

00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:26.239
and something that felt like a chorus. And this

00:59:26.239 --> 00:59:32.860
was Chad's point earlier, just from that very

00:59:32.860 --> 00:59:37.900
de minimis, small idea, some confluence of chords

00:59:37.900 --> 00:59:41.320
that flowed one into the other. and we started

00:59:41.320 --> 00:59:45.360
to jam and we started to build. And it was obviously

00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:48.019
a song that was important enough that he came

00:59:48.019 --> 00:59:54.059
first on the cassette tape. And even then, I

00:59:54.059 --> 00:59:58.760
didn't realize that I was a songwriter. It was

00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:01.199
just like a band jam to me. I didn't recognize

01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:04.480
that that was a song. And then probably the most

01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:06.260
pivotal moment, and I know I've told this story

01:00:06.260 --> 01:00:09.239
before, but it's so important, is as we progressed

01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:13.880
as songwriters, I was in Chad Gracie's parents'

01:00:14.019 --> 01:00:18.199
garage on Newberry Street, and we had built this

01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:21.800
deck where we practiced. All the equipment was

01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:23.699
stored below the deck, the band practiced up

01:00:23.699 --> 01:00:27.820
on the deck, and I showed up to rehearsal early,

01:00:27.820 --> 01:00:31.289
and I was just playing two chords. I guess there's

01:00:31.289 --> 01:00:32.949
a passing chord technically in the middle, but

01:00:32.949 --> 01:00:36.289
essentially a two chord progression. It's just

01:00:36.289 --> 01:00:38.110
something I thought sounded neat. And I was playing

01:00:38.110 --> 01:00:40.570
it over and over again. And next thing you know,

01:00:40.590 --> 01:00:45.469
the garage door goes up and Ed walks in and I

01:00:45.469 --> 01:00:47.389
stopped playing to say hi. And he was like, no,

01:00:47.389 --> 01:00:51.789
no, no, keep playing that. And it eventually

01:00:51.789 --> 01:00:54.309
within probably 15 minutes turned into Operation

01:00:54.309 --> 01:00:59.250
Spirit. Wow. So like. Even then, I didn't know

01:00:59.250 --> 01:01:01.130
I was being a songwriter. I was just playing

01:01:01.130 --> 01:01:04.610
chords. So whatever. I was in touch with my instrument.

01:01:05.969 --> 01:01:09.469
I had done all the prep work. I cleared my head.

01:01:09.630 --> 01:01:12.190
I had done all these things to just be present

01:01:12.190 --> 01:01:15.309
at practice. And the chords just started flowing.

01:01:16.550 --> 01:01:20.309
And then Chad and Patrick showed up to start

01:01:20.309 --> 01:01:22.730
rehearsal. And rather than work on whatever else

01:01:22.730 --> 01:01:24.949
we had done, it was like, well, here's this brand

01:01:24.949 --> 01:01:27.960
new thing. There's suddenly some formation of

01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:29.679
what a verse sounded like, some formation of

01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:33.179
a chorus, and we put together all the parts.

01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:35.940
And I mean, honestly, with something like that,

01:01:35.940 --> 01:01:39.199
I would probably say from its inception in the

01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:43.119
beginning until it found some form, like what

01:01:43.119 --> 01:01:45.039
you hear it on the record was probably an hour

01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:48.840
max. That was one of the quick ones. Jam, jam,

01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:51.460
jam, and everything's coming through. And then

01:01:51.460 --> 01:01:53.960
this also tells you how much I didn't understand

01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:58.369
my role as a writer or a creator. So here we

01:01:58.369 --> 01:02:00.789
get this record deal. We get to go off to Milwaukee

01:02:00.789 --> 01:02:04.050
and record with Jerry Harrison. And I was coming

01:02:04.050 --> 01:02:06.329
up with a list of songs for Jerry that we would

01:02:06.329 --> 01:02:08.829
have to record. And our manager at the time,

01:02:08.969 --> 01:02:11.030
David Sestak, today's his birthday, by the way.

01:02:11.210 --> 01:02:15.150
Happy birthday, David. Happy birthday. But I

01:02:15.150 --> 01:02:17.829
had written this list and faxed it to him to

01:02:17.829 --> 01:02:19.769
just give you a by date and time and send him

01:02:19.769 --> 01:02:22.269
a fax to the list. And he called me immediately

01:02:22.269 --> 01:02:26.130
and was like, where's Operation Spirit? I said,

01:02:26.150 --> 01:02:27.630
oh, we don't want to record that song. I was

01:02:27.630 --> 01:02:32.690
like, that's old. Wow. Like, that's just too

01:02:32.690 --> 01:02:35.630
old. Like, too many people have heard that or

01:02:35.630 --> 01:02:42.309
something. And it was pretty crazy because I

01:02:42.309 --> 01:02:44.909
recognized then that, like, you know, and I fought

01:02:44.909 --> 01:02:47.250
that process. We played it for Jerry. Then we

01:02:47.250 --> 01:02:49.030
recorded it. And of course, it became the first

01:02:49.030 --> 01:02:55.400
single off of Mental Jewelry. Two for two. And

01:02:55.400 --> 01:02:57.519
then we'll go into like so even then, you know,

01:02:57.619 --> 01:03:00.860
like on mental jewelry I know tired to me is

01:03:00.860 --> 01:03:02.780
the song when I say there's like when I say I

01:03:02.780 --> 01:03:05.179
birthed it like It's a song that came through

01:03:05.179 --> 01:03:07.440
the universe into me. I believe it was already

01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:10.619
there I just I I prepared my spiritual antenna

01:03:10.619 --> 01:03:14.360
and it came to me I know like tired to me is

01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:16.400
on there. There's a couple brothers unaware would

01:03:16.400 --> 01:03:21.719
be another song Mental jewelry record good pain

01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:26.920
is another one And then, so as we were going

01:03:26.920 --> 01:03:32.380
forward, suddenly like this thing where Ed earnestly

01:03:32.380 --> 01:03:37.079
encouraged me, brought me along, just like I

01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:39.059
brought him along playing guitar, which is a

01:03:39.059 --> 01:03:43.159
weird thing. We were trading off ideas as innocent

01:03:43.159 --> 01:03:46.400
as could be. There was, as far as I'm concerned,

01:03:46.780 --> 01:03:50.000
There was no head and there was no tail. It was

01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:52.780
just all for one. And then Chad and Patrick,

01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:55.260
mind you, if you listen to Operation Spirit,

01:03:55.719 --> 01:03:58.500
what drives that song is the bass and drums.

01:03:58.900 --> 01:04:01.539
The guitar doesn't drive that song. I would even

01:04:01.539 --> 01:04:03.139
argue that the vocal doesn't drive the song.

01:04:03.179 --> 01:04:05.179
What drives the song forward and makes it interesting

01:04:05.179 --> 01:04:09.840
is what the bass and drums play. So this is what

01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:12.199
I was talking earlier about the collaborative,

01:04:12.539 --> 01:04:14.940
right? That's what was so special. I'm still

01:04:14.940 --> 01:04:17.599
telling you, Had it just been Ed and I in the

01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:19.599
room and we finished, you know, writing what

01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:21.800
you consider is the foundational elements of

01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:23.460
the song and Chad and Patrick hadn't played on

01:04:23.460 --> 01:04:25.059
it. I'm telling you right now, it's not a hit

01:04:25.059 --> 01:04:28.260
song. Yeah. And then, but Operation Spirit did

01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:31.500
become a hit. Buzz Bin, MTV Buzz Bin added it

01:04:31.500 --> 01:04:36.699
into Rotation. And, you know, suddenly, you know,

01:04:36.699 --> 01:04:40.460
we were on 120 minutes and the band got global

01:04:40.460 --> 01:04:44.840
recognition off of that first single. And...

01:04:44.590 --> 01:04:47.769
There starts the problem in our band, right?

01:04:48.090 --> 01:04:51.170
I had an outside, a very famous Grammy award

01:04:51.170 --> 01:04:54.869
-winning producer that said to me, the problem

01:04:54.869 --> 01:04:57.670
with live is that you wrote many of the seminal

01:04:57.670 --> 01:05:01.610
songs. And I said, well, no, we worked as a collective

01:05:01.610 --> 01:05:03.909
on all those things. I did it. And he said, well,

01:05:03.949 --> 01:05:06.070
no, no, no. I don't mean it like that. But imagine

01:05:06.070 --> 01:05:10.489
if it's not live and it's Nirvana. And Dave Grohl

01:05:10.489 --> 01:05:14.429
writes Smells Like Teen Spirit. How different

01:05:14.429 --> 01:05:17.510
is the feeling that band Yeah, like a totally

01:05:17.510 --> 01:05:20.869
different band. It's not Kurt Cobain's band where

01:05:20.869 --> 01:05:23.070
he presented his songs and then they build arrangements

01:05:23.070 --> 01:05:26.230
around it Well, I did I was a teenager. I mean,

01:05:26.269 --> 01:05:28.289
why don't we were 18 19 year old kids? I didn't

01:05:28.289 --> 01:05:32.369
know shit. I didn't know anything and Then the

01:05:32.369 --> 01:05:35.730
next album right going forward the next album

01:05:35.730 --> 01:05:41.769
I was living at an apartment in York with my

01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:45.320
soon -to -be bride like I know we were engaged

01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:50.559
and I'm not joking I wrote dang you know and

01:05:50.559 --> 01:05:54.460
I like stopped and I was like Holy shit. That's

01:05:54.460 --> 01:05:57.920
a hit. I've never felt like anything like that

01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:00.840
in my life I'd like literally my wife was just

01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:02.340
getting out of the shower to like get ready to

01:06:02.340 --> 01:06:04.579
go to work and I walked in I was like I gotta

01:06:04.579 --> 01:06:07.619
go I'm driving to Lancaster. I'm driving to Ed's

01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:10.420
house right now and remember back then I didn't

01:06:10.420 --> 01:06:13.219
even I had the most basic tape recorder to hit

01:06:13.219 --> 01:06:15.900
record, but today you would just record it on

01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:19.320
an iPhone. What I was fearful of was that I would

01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:23.179
forget it. That it would just get lost in the

01:06:23.179 --> 01:06:25.380
ether. So the whole drive, you know, it takes

01:06:25.380 --> 01:06:27.619
like 30 or 40 minutes. It probably only took

01:06:27.619 --> 01:06:29.719
me 20 minutes on that day to get from York to

01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:33.340
Lancaster. And the whole time I'm singing in

01:06:33.340 --> 01:06:38.769
my head. Don't forget that. Don't forget it.

01:06:38.769 --> 01:06:40.929
Don't forget. I'd stuff my guitar and I'm not

01:06:40.929 --> 01:06:43.369
Ed at the time had an apartment in a barn. It

01:06:43.369 --> 01:06:48.050
was like a lower four of a barn. It's like, I

01:06:48.050 --> 01:06:52.429
don't know, 10 a .m. Like opens the door. I think

01:06:52.429 --> 01:06:54.989
he was in his boxer shorts. He's like, what do

01:06:54.989 --> 01:06:59.030
you want? I'm like, dude, listen to this. And

01:06:59.030 --> 01:07:02.659
I'm not joking. It's the only song in life's

01:07:02.659 --> 01:07:04.340
history where he had grabbed his guitar and he

01:07:04.340 --> 01:07:06.320
was sitting directly across from me and I played

01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:14.840
And he went wrong He hit the next chord I literally

01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:17.440
played the B minor 7 not to get into the music

01:07:17.440 --> 01:07:21.139
thing and then we both Like magically hit the

01:07:21.139 --> 01:07:23.139
C chord right at the back end of the thing and

01:07:23.139 --> 01:07:25.659
it was like, you know I don't know. What are

01:07:25.659 --> 01:07:27.880
those like teenage kid movies where you're like?

01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:34.579
Or do we just become best friends? Yeah I Tell

01:07:34.579 --> 01:07:37.260
you we fucking knew in the moment like we were

01:07:37.260 --> 01:07:40.760
like, holy shit. Like don't forget this Ed started

01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:44.860
writing lyrics so fast like almost to this day

01:07:44.860 --> 01:07:50.699
what what is there and then We we started to

01:07:50.699 --> 01:07:53.619
write and it was Ed's idea the progression that

01:07:53.619 --> 01:07:56.380
goes into the that today we would call a pre

01:07:56.380 --> 01:07:59.960
-chorus And I didn't even look at his hand to

01:07:59.960 --> 01:08:01.719
see what chords he was playing, but I just started

01:08:01.719 --> 01:08:04.159
playing automatically like the rising guitar

01:08:04.159 --> 01:08:10.440
part. I'm like, we hit a thing. I was like, we're

01:08:10.440 --> 01:08:14.119
right there. And then it was like chorus instantly.

01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:17.680
I would probably say it was an hour process,

01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:21.180
front to back. Like I have chills all over me

01:08:21.180 --> 01:08:24.680
right now remembering doing it. It was so magical.

01:08:25.340 --> 01:08:28.270
It was insane. And then of course then it's like,

01:08:28.329 --> 01:08:30.609
you know, call the boys, get the boys in the,

01:08:30.670 --> 01:08:32.710
you know, you hear all these stories about, you

01:08:32.710 --> 01:08:35.770
know, guys saying, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young

01:08:35.770 --> 01:08:38.170
or whatever, you know, they wrote Ohio wherever

01:08:38.170 --> 01:08:40.949
they're like, book the studio. Well, we didn't

01:08:40.949 --> 01:08:42.970
have the money to do that, but it was like, call

01:08:42.970 --> 01:08:45.470
the guys, like get them in the rehearsal room.

01:08:45.810 --> 01:08:48.510
We got to put this together, we knew. And then

01:08:48.510 --> 01:08:52.310
of course for live. The record label I didn't

01:08:52.310 --> 01:08:54.449
pick the singles the record label was like well

01:08:54.449 --> 01:08:56.250
selling the drums the first single on throwing

01:08:56.250 --> 01:08:59.449
copper And it went straight up the charts and

01:08:59.449 --> 01:09:02.850
it went to number one. So now I'm now I'm three

01:09:02.850 --> 01:09:07.050
for three Yeah, Savior for a day. I got operations

01:09:07.050 --> 01:09:08.810
beer. I got selling in a drama. We're creating

01:09:08.810 --> 01:09:12.029
a trend and Then we complete the trend of course

01:09:12.029 --> 01:09:15.289
with Likini's juice and secrets of Mahdi So and

01:09:15.289 --> 01:09:17.850
that song debuted at number one the album debuted

01:09:17.850 --> 01:09:20.890
at number one we, you know, we launched the whole

01:09:20.890 --> 01:09:22.989
record with Saturday Night Live, all those things.

01:09:23.069 --> 01:09:28.689
Well, in my, there are no, I gotta stay humble

01:09:28.689 --> 01:09:31.170
to the whole process because I'm just one little

01:09:31.170 --> 01:09:33.810
tiny piece of it. But like the band's career

01:09:33.810 --> 01:09:35.810
arc is a totally different career arc without

01:09:35.810 --> 01:09:39.630
those first seminal songs. Yes. That's true.

01:09:40.029 --> 01:09:44.130
Yes. And that was, I've spoken to Chad Gracie

01:09:44.130 --> 01:09:47.029
about this a bunch of times, like, That beginning

01:09:47.029 --> 01:09:50.170
of selling the drama is so iconic. Of course,

01:09:50.170 --> 01:09:52.369
it's not the whole song, but it's such a huge

01:09:52.369 --> 01:09:55.449
part of that song that to me who comes up with

01:09:55.449 --> 01:09:58.890
that part is the songwriter. And then when you

01:09:58.890 --> 01:10:01.350
describe the rest of it, it does seem very collaborative

01:10:01.350 --> 01:10:04.050
between you and Ed getting the initial part down

01:10:04.050 --> 01:10:06.050
and then the other two guys coming in the end

01:10:06.050 --> 01:10:08.630
and really getting it, you know, fleshed out

01:10:08.630 --> 01:10:12.109
and made into a complete song. One of the things

01:10:12.109 --> 01:10:15.630
about that process is I was concerned about we.

01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:20.880
W -E. Always. That's the we. What does the band

01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:23.180
do? How does the band sound? How do we bring

01:10:23.180 --> 01:10:25.800
this together? And then, of course, on the Throwing

01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:29.060
Copper record, that's an interesting record because

01:10:29.060 --> 01:10:33.500
the iconic show opener, album opener is Damanata

01:10:33.500 --> 01:10:38.640
Creek. And that song came about. We had rented

01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:44.260
this rehearsal space in downtown Lancaster. It

01:10:44.260 --> 01:10:50.680
was on the second floor above a little, a tiny

01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:55.039
little futon shop that today is a coffee shop.

01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:57.479
And I'm sure that many of the people that go

01:10:57.479 --> 01:10:59.439
into the coffee shop have no idea that most of

01:10:59.439 --> 01:11:01.479
the songs for Throwing Copper were put together

01:11:01.479 --> 01:11:05.720
there. But Ed told me that there was a Sunoco

01:11:05.720 --> 01:11:07.800
station, like Caddy Corner, kind of from the

01:11:07.800 --> 01:11:10.359
rehearsal space in downtown Lancaster. And he

01:11:10.359 --> 01:11:12.840
said that he was going to go get a gallon of

01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:18.529
water. And I just bought this brand new Fender

01:11:18.529 --> 01:11:21.529
Super Reverb amp, and I turned on the tremolo

01:11:21.529 --> 01:11:24.010
and the reverb like really high, and I started

01:11:24.010 --> 01:11:28.170
to play Damn It Otter Creek. And the weird thing

01:11:28.170 --> 01:11:30.670
is I had dreamt the song Damn It Otter Creek.

01:11:30.829 --> 01:11:34.890
I had a dream the night before, and I was standing

01:11:34.890 --> 01:11:37.489
underneath power lines, like those high tension

01:11:37.489 --> 01:11:40.289
power cables. And if anybody that's ever done

01:11:40.289 --> 01:11:42.359
that, you can actually hear them. and they make

01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:45.539
like a really eerie noise that it's like a low

01:11:45.539 --> 01:11:51.859
buzzing sound and it's almost a hum and I was

01:11:51.859 --> 01:11:59.319
standing below that and in the dream I heard

01:11:59.319 --> 01:12:05.140
the beginning of our concert not a wow and like

01:12:05.140 --> 01:12:09.220
there was this big ominous like almost like thunderstorm

01:12:09.220 --> 01:12:12.789
that was coming Yeah, and if you know anything

01:12:12.789 --> 01:12:16.130
about live we we grew up sort of next door to

01:12:16.130 --> 01:12:20.090
Three Mile Island and So in the dream I was standing

01:12:20.090 --> 01:12:22.350
at this place called Rocky Ridge State Park and

01:12:22.350 --> 01:12:24.250
you could see in the distance Three Mile Island

01:12:24.250 --> 01:12:25.869
and I was standing underneath the power lines.

01:12:25.930 --> 01:12:29.689
That's what the dream was So in the room now,

01:12:29.689 --> 01:12:32.970
you know next day I'm remembering this dream

01:12:32.970 --> 01:12:35.850
and I'm like I gotta I gotta tap back into that

01:12:36.189 --> 01:12:37.949
It's not something I could have done with Ed

01:12:37.949 --> 01:12:40.510
standing in the room. So when he excused himself,

01:12:41.210 --> 01:12:45.470
I started to find the note. That you heard. Yeah,

01:12:45.590 --> 01:12:50.210
just a single note. And that was a B on my guitar.

01:12:50.369 --> 01:12:52.890
And I held the chord. I just started mashing

01:12:52.890 --> 01:12:56.569
my fingers, just moving them. And it was going...

01:12:56.569 --> 01:12:59.829
And I was like, that's the sound. Now I was like,

01:12:59.909 --> 01:13:03.229
now what's the song? And then I started to play

01:13:03.229 --> 01:13:06.859
those chords. And I did that for probably about

01:13:06.859 --> 01:13:10.140
10 minutes. Again, like thinking, oh my God,

01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:13.300
you'll forget this dummy. Now at this time, fortunately

01:13:13.300 --> 01:13:16.079
we had a DAT player and a digital audio tape

01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:18.680
and we were recording everything. So this is

01:13:18.680 --> 01:13:22.539
actually all recorded. And next thing you know,

01:13:23.100 --> 01:13:25.600
Ed had never left. He was sitting in the stairwell

01:13:25.600 --> 01:13:30.600
listening to me playing and he was writing. And

01:13:30.600 --> 01:13:34.850
he walked in the room and... He like there was

01:13:34.850 --> 01:13:38.750
this little harmonica microphone and he picked

01:13:38.750 --> 01:13:44.630
it up and it was just distorted I was like, oh

01:13:44.630 --> 01:13:51.409
yeah On to something else there. I fucking knew

01:13:51.409 --> 01:13:54.250
instantly. I was like this is it and then but

01:13:54.250 --> 01:13:57.060
what's interesting so We worked on that song

01:13:57.060 --> 01:13:59.380
and we created Ed and I created the architecture

01:13:59.380 --> 01:14:01.140
where it kept on going faster and faster and

01:14:01.140 --> 01:14:03.939
faster and faster and part of that was I Was

01:14:03.939 --> 01:14:07.060
grabbing the speed of the vibrato on my amp and

01:14:07.060 --> 01:14:09.539
making it go faster and faster So it was like

01:14:09.539 --> 01:14:14.539
by the end and then we got done writing that

01:14:14.539 --> 01:14:18.819
and then Ed said Okay, this is all about a band

01:14:18.819 --> 01:14:20.699
performance. There aren't enough chords and it's

01:14:20.699 --> 01:14:23.399
not complex enough. We it has to be a band performance

01:14:24.060 --> 01:14:27.500
So we showed it to Ed, or I'm sorry, to Patrick

01:14:27.500 --> 01:14:32.579
and to Chad one time. And they played gently

01:14:32.579 --> 01:14:35.319
through it, and we got done in the rehearsals,

01:14:35.399 --> 01:14:37.859
and we said, we're never playing that again until

01:14:37.859 --> 01:14:41.899
we're in the recording studio. Never. So what

01:14:41.899 --> 01:14:44.560
you hear on the Throwing Copper recording is

01:14:44.560 --> 01:14:48.420
the very first time that the band actually committed

01:14:48.420 --> 01:14:51.380
fully to playing the song. And it's captured

01:14:51.380 --> 01:14:54.800
on tape. And Gracie tried at, if you listen,

01:14:54.859 --> 01:14:57.340
the very end of the song, he technically misses

01:14:57.340 --> 01:15:03.399
a kick drum beat. And he was like, I can't believe

01:15:03.399 --> 01:15:06.140
I fucked it up. I messed up the very end of the

01:15:06.140 --> 01:15:08.539
song. Like we played it perfectly. And Gracie

01:15:08.539 --> 01:15:10.960
said, you know, basically into Jerry Harrison

01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:12.840
and Lou Giordano that was engineering, he was

01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:15.239
like, give us another take. And Jerry Harrison

01:15:15.239 --> 01:15:19.000
walked in the room. He said, no way, no way.

01:15:19.199 --> 01:15:23.810
We'll never get it better. And so those are,

01:15:23.909 --> 01:15:26.489
like, that's the magic. So when we were talking

01:15:26.489 --> 01:15:29.489
about the collaboration, like, honestly, other

01:15:29.489 --> 01:15:32.310
than the architecture that Gracie was going to

01:15:32.310 --> 01:15:35.170
go faster, and that Patrick understood where

01:15:35.170 --> 01:15:38.250
the chord changes were, we left it to the whole,

01:15:38.409 --> 01:15:41.930
to the body. Yeah. And someone was asking. And

01:15:41.930 --> 01:15:44.909
you get that. Yeah, someone was asking my process

01:15:44.909 --> 01:15:47.890
for that song. My inspiration for that song was

01:15:47.890 --> 01:15:51.949
the song Exit by U2 from the Joshua Tree. That

01:15:51.949 --> 01:15:54.909
song down on a creek reminds me at least of exit

01:15:54.909 --> 01:15:57.310
If you listen to go back and listen to that song

01:15:57.310 --> 01:16:00.510
the way to Larry plays that my humble bias That's

01:16:00.510 --> 01:16:03.050
kind of what I was emulating and then the the

01:16:03.050 --> 01:16:05.789
beginning kick drum beats where it's all distorted

01:16:05.789 --> 01:16:10.510
and big big delays that was from the beginning

01:16:10.510 --> 01:16:13.430
of act on baby remember we're sitting in the

01:16:13.430 --> 01:16:15.789
Super high sitting in the fucking conference

01:16:15.789 --> 01:16:19.130
room in in England act on baby for the first

01:16:19.130 --> 01:16:21.640
time because we got super high. We were driving

01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:23.699
around England or driving around London with

01:16:23.699 --> 01:16:27.239
a record company guy, Toby. And we all ate hash

01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:29.979
and got super high. Yeah. We ended up back at

01:16:29.979 --> 01:16:31.739
the record company's office and we're sitting

01:16:31.739 --> 01:16:33.319
in this room. They just put us in the room. They

01:16:33.319 --> 01:16:35.079
knew we're all shit. We're all fucking super

01:16:35.079 --> 01:16:37.319
high. We're just like tripping out just laughing.

01:16:37.800 --> 01:16:39.640
And they were like, put the kids away. Yeah.

01:16:39.760 --> 01:16:42.260
And they brought in, they brought in copies to

01:16:42.260 --> 01:16:44.920
each of us of Act on Baby. And it was just out

01:16:44.920 --> 01:16:47.000
or coming out, wouldn't out yet. I don't, I can't

01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:50.649
remember. But and so I was like oh fuck yeah

01:16:50.649 --> 01:16:52.750
so they give a CD so I went up to the stereo

01:16:52.750 --> 01:16:58.289
equipment and I put mine in and it's like and

01:16:58.289 --> 01:17:01.930
I was like why are Larry's drums disordered this

01:17:01.930 --> 01:17:04.829
is fucked up give me yours mine's fucked up so

01:17:04.829 --> 01:17:06.689
I put in someone else's but yours is fucked up

01:17:06.689 --> 01:17:08.630
too ended up going through all four of them and

01:17:08.630 --> 01:17:10.430
we're like oh shit this must be how they start

01:17:10.430 --> 01:17:14.329
the record how funny but that that's what inspired

01:17:14.329 --> 01:17:16.409
the the drum hits and like I wanted it to sound

01:17:16.409 --> 01:17:19.250
like that and then the song exit is my inspiration

01:17:19.250 --> 01:17:23.529
for the whole song. Just saying as a fan of your

01:17:23.529 --> 01:17:25.829
guys music, like these stories are like giving

01:17:25.829 --> 01:17:30.229
me chills for one. But two, it just it's so sad

01:17:30.229 --> 01:17:33.510
that you guys were having so much magic in a

01:17:33.510 --> 01:17:36.569
room together making this fucking music. And

01:17:36.569 --> 01:17:39.010
like now we're here and we and we don't have

01:17:39.010 --> 01:17:42.069
you guys doing that. Like it's it's just crazy.

01:17:43.069 --> 01:17:46.029
Oh, we haven't done it for. Well, other than

01:17:46.029 --> 01:17:47.970
the turn and the gracious few, we haven't done

01:17:47.970 --> 01:17:51.550
this for forever with with live. Right. We did

01:17:51.550 --> 01:17:54.050
a little bit on we did get in a room for birds

01:17:54.050 --> 01:17:56.710
of prey and write some songs kind of the old

01:17:56.710 --> 01:17:59.470
way. I mean, and there's a couple of bangers

01:17:59.470 --> 01:18:03.189
on there. Yeah. Gee, I always think that that's

01:18:03.189 --> 01:18:06.270
a Chad Taylor song, the second song off of was

01:18:06.270 --> 01:18:08.729
she one of yours? No, I wasn't. I think I wrote

01:18:08.729 --> 01:18:11.970
like I do. Yeah, like a lighthouse for sure.

01:18:12.130 --> 01:18:16.010
Lighthouse for sure. Yeah. Only said she because

01:18:16.010 --> 01:18:18.390
it's like such a rocking song on that album and

01:18:18.390 --> 01:18:20.449
I just didn't think Ed was like kind of doing

01:18:20.449 --> 01:18:22.890
stuff No, but listen it can write shit out of

01:18:22.890 --> 01:18:24.609
a rock song. Are you kidding me? The opening

01:18:24.609 --> 01:18:27.989
riff to was simple Creed I mean man, that's fucking

01:18:27.989 --> 01:18:30.890
I still play that every time it the two Ed songs

01:18:30.890 --> 01:18:33.489
I most consistently pick up my guitar and play

01:18:33.489 --> 01:18:38.909
are the is mirror song which is in my as a fellow

01:18:38.909 --> 01:18:42.350
songwriter I think is Ed's pan ultimate very

01:18:42.350 --> 01:18:46.869
best songwriter's song, just because of chordal

01:18:46.869 --> 01:18:48.829
structure, melody, all those things that come

01:18:48.829 --> 01:18:51.770
together. And then, you know, I always play the

01:18:51.770 --> 01:18:54.449
riff to Simple Creed. It's just, it's, it's freaking

01:18:54.449 --> 01:18:57.550
awesome. Oh, you're blowing my mind, dude. I

01:18:57.550 --> 01:18:59.810
could have swore Simple Creed was a Chad Taylor

01:18:59.810 --> 01:19:04.390
riff. So that's, wow. I wish I wish that. I think

01:19:04.390 --> 01:19:07.350
that's my point is like, it would come from all,

01:19:07.369 --> 01:19:11.100
I mean, one of my favorite live songs is Grey's.

01:19:11.380 --> 01:19:14.199
I mean, Ed wrote that. I mean, you know, or Gas

01:19:14.199 --> 01:19:16.579
Ed Goes West. That's an awesome song that Ed

01:19:16.579 --> 01:19:19.260
brought in, like rocks something incredible.

01:19:20.399 --> 01:19:23.840
So, and you know, also in live, one of the things

01:19:23.840 --> 01:19:26.000
that, you know, I mean, he's not here on the

01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:28.439
podcast, but it has to be, you know, represented

01:19:28.439 --> 01:19:31.460
is what Patrick would bring in. The magic to

01:19:31.460 --> 01:19:35.239
those records was that you really had three initiators

01:19:35.239 --> 01:19:38.829
of ideas. in Ed, myself, and Patrick. So like,

01:19:38.890 --> 01:19:44.210
for example, on Throwing Copper, you've got Pillar

01:19:44.210 --> 01:19:48.250
of Davidson, which is perhaps one of the band's

01:19:48.250 --> 01:19:53.310
very best all -time songs. Beautiful. And what

01:19:53.310 --> 01:19:55.789
I'll tell you about that that's kind of fun,

01:19:57.850 --> 01:20:01.529
Ed and I, Ed encouraging more songs, more writing.

01:20:01.819 --> 01:20:03.899
said, you know, we got to get a song from Patrick

01:20:03.899 --> 01:20:08.260
on here. Patrick had contributed Libra to the

01:20:08.260 --> 01:20:13.439
death of a dictionary. Kind of brain farting

01:20:13.439 --> 01:20:17.279
around mental jewelry right now. But he had written

01:20:17.279 --> 01:20:21.199
songs that were really moving. And Ed said, you

01:20:21.199 --> 01:20:23.739
know, we're missing that for this album. We need

01:20:23.739 --> 01:20:27.479
the classic Patrick song. And Patrick was Waterboy

01:20:27.479 --> 01:20:29.260
Patrick off mental jewelry. I'm sorry to interrupt

01:20:29.260 --> 01:20:31.739
you, Chad Waterboy. That seems like a base heavy

01:20:31.739 --> 01:20:35.260
song. Hey, John, we're getting a lot of comments

01:20:35.260 --> 01:20:37.939
and now my mom's writing me the screen creeps

01:20:37.939 --> 01:20:41.359
keeps freezing. So I don't know if I saw some

01:20:41.359 --> 01:20:43.779
of those, too. It seems good on my end. I'm hoping

01:20:43.779 --> 01:20:46.199
that the replay goes out fine. But if not, I

01:20:46.199 --> 01:20:49.079
definitely have its recording. So if there was

01:20:49.079 --> 01:20:51.560
something going on, I'll be able to put up. We

01:20:51.560 --> 01:20:55.659
could be crashing the system. I think so, for

01:20:55.659 --> 01:21:01.979
sure. TBD came from Patrick's base idea too,

01:21:02.100 --> 01:21:07.380
right? Yeah, it's stunning. And I think this

01:21:07.380 --> 01:21:09.739
is one of the things that when we talk about

01:21:09.739 --> 01:21:12.619
the four magic ingredients going in, creating

01:21:12.619 --> 01:21:18.720
the cake, it's okay. So single wise, I talked

01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:20.939
about the things I talked about, but... a lot

01:21:20.939 --> 01:21:26.100
of like the more in depth songs, you know, Patrick

01:21:26.100 --> 01:21:29.560
wrote super duper emotional stuff and like America

01:21:29.560 --> 01:21:33.380
on the secrets of body, which is like also that's

01:21:33.380 --> 01:21:35.060
a guitar riff that like I pick up and I play

01:21:35.060 --> 01:21:36.939
all the time. But Patrick wrote all of that.

01:21:36.979 --> 01:21:41.140
I mean, that's his birthing. That's at some point

01:21:41.140 --> 01:21:44.819
it turns into this like strangeness of like,

01:21:44.979 --> 01:21:48.779
well, then why would you turn that off? Right.

01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:51.539
Even I don't know that. Why would you stop that?

01:21:53.920 --> 01:21:57.460
It's absolutely crazy to me. Like, and if it's

01:21:57.460 --> 01:21:59.619
if it's because like you're like, because if

01:21:59.619 --> 01:22:01.119
you're saying in an interview, like, yeah, so

01:22:01.119 --> 01:22:03.319
I wrote like selling the drama, you're just saying

01:22:03.319 --> 01:22:05.220
it from like, you're not like getting into the

01:22:05.220 --> 01:22:07.300
nitty gritty. Like, well, I wrote this part and

01:22:07.300 --> 01:22:08.899
then Ed came in and wrote that you're just talking

01:22:08.899 --> 01:22:11.500
about generalities. Yeah. And John, you're using

01:22:11.500 --> 01:22:13.739
words that I wouldn't say. I would say that I

01:22:13.739 --> 01:22:16.050
birthed. that I brought that into the universe.

01:22:16.229 --> 01:22:19.470
I never say I wrote it. We wrote it. We, the

01:22:19.470 --> 01:22:21.550
collective. The only reason why I ever want to

01:22:21.550 --> 01:22:26.770
say that is because all four guys in the band

01:22:26.770 --> 01:22:31.069
were so integral to the process. You know, you

01:22:31.069 --> 01:22:34.710
don't get really one without the other. And this

01:22:34.710 --> 01:22:37.750
is, you know, so Peter Friedman passed away.

01:22:37.810 --> 01:22:39.989
That was our manager for anybody that doesn't

01:22:39.989 --> 01:22:44.840
know. He passed away in 2003. And that was, I

01:22:44.840 --> 01:22:47.800
think for me spiritually, the beginning and the

01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:53.619
end, which is an awfully long time ago. But we

01:22:53.619 --> 01:22:57.659
fumbled that as a group of young men and our

01:22:57.659 --> 01:23:01.600
leadership from a management standpoint. Basically,

01:23:01.880 --> 01:23:04.520
when Peter had his funeral, first of all, we

01:23:04.520 --> 01:23:07.939
didn't know he was sick. And then he suddenly

01:23:07.939 --> 01:23:13.500
and tragically died. Rather than saying to the

01:23:13.500 --> 01:23:16.680
band, hey, let's cancel the tour. How about some

01:23:16.680 --> 01:23:21.239
therapy? Time for grieving, all those things.

01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:25.119
While everybody was at Peter's memorial service

01:23:25.119 --> 01:23:26.920
in Lancaster, because he happened to be from

01:23:26.920 --> 01:23:29.819
Lancaster. Live was literally halfway around

01:23:29.819 --> 01:23:33.140
the world on stage in Australia. And we never

01:23:33.140 --> 01:23:37.720
took a moment to pause and say, what does this

01:23:37.720 --> 01:23:40.779
mean for us? And then the whole architecture

01:23:40.779 --> 01:23:43.460
of our leadership, we had David Sestek and Peter

01:23:43.460 --> 01:23:46.689
Freeman, which were very much. They balanced

01:23:46.689 --> 01:23:49.470
each other. Sestek was so obsessed with the art.

01:23:49.890 --> 01:23:52.390
He wanted to make sure every font was correct

01:23:52.390 --> 01:23:55.569
and every picture of the band was crystal clear

01:23:55.569 --> 01:23:57.789
or even not crystal clear, whatever it was, to

01:23:57.789 --> 01:24:00.869
keep those brand standards there. And then Peter

01:24:00.869 --> 01:24:03.109
was more administrative. He was worried about

01:24:03.109 --> 01:24:06.149
the recording contracts, record promotion, all

01:24:06.149 --> 01:24:08.970
those things. And so I really do believe that

01:24:08.970 --> 01:24:11.050
we had some sort of super team back then. And

01:24:11.050 --> 01:24:14.899
they managed us from death of a dictionary all

01:24:14.899 --> 01:24:17.520
the way into, I actually think, a little bit

01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:22.819
of birds of prey. And then Peter died and then

01:24:22.819 --> 01:24:26.279
Ed suggested this man, Gary Kerfirst, who was

01:24:26.279 --> 01:24:28.979
our label president, become our manager, the

01:24:28.979 --> 01:24:32.159
band's manager. And anybody that's a lawyer out

01:24:32.159 --> 01:24:33.920
there instantly goes, well, geez, isn't that

01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:37.140
a conflict of interest? Well, yeah, inherently

01:24:37.140 --> 01:24:40.119
it was. But also at the same time, Gary was definitely

01:24:40.119 --> 01:24:42.500
the most talented manager that we knew at the

01:24:42.500 --> 01:24:45.100
time. But I didn't really understand that that

01:24:45.100 --> 01:24:48.359
was really the beginning of major changes. And

01:24:48.359 --> 01:24:51.359
then I know for me, my personal experience was

01:24:51.359 --> 01:24:54.630
I got a contract in the mail. Gary. moved the

01:24:54.630 --> 01:24:57.750
band out MCA records and off of his own label

01:24:57.750 --> 01:25:00.550
radioactive and moved us over to epic records

01:25:00.550 --> 01:25:04.510
and I was very excited about going to a new record

01:25:04.510 --> 01:25:07.890
label new beginnings all those things and I got

01:25:07.890 --> 01:25:10.609
a copy of the recording contract an execution

01:25:10.609 --> 01:25:14.130
copy for me to sign in the mail and As I page

01:25:14.130 --> 01:25:17.670
through it I I recognized I was smart enough

01:25:17.670 --> 01:25:20.090
at the time like we had signed enough big deals

01:25:20.090 --> 01:25:23.289
to read the deals I don't know that I fully understood

01:25:23.390 --> 01:25:27.489
every nuance of what I was signing. But I read

01:25:27.489 --> 01:25:29.869
through and I pretty soon figured out that there

01:25:29.869 --> 01:25:32.869
was an entire section of the record that was

01:25:32.869 --> 01:25:36.890
dedicated towards an Ed solo record. Right. And

01:25:36.890 --> 01:25:40.250
there was no discussion about this. Yeah, nothing.

01:25:40.630 --> 01:25:43.109
I like literally just read it in the thing, like

01:25:43.109 --> 01:25:44.729
real time. Not from management, not from Ed,

01:25:44.850 --> 01:25:47.430
no one. No one discussed it with us. Our quote

01:25:47.430 --> 01:25:49.310
unquote lawyers that we're supposed to represent

01:25:49.310 --> 01:25:56.329
all of us. And I was like, what the hell is this?

01:25:56.750 --> 01:25:59.270
And then it got excused to me as, well, the language

01:25:59.270 --> 01:26:01.369
is vague enough that any one of us could release

01:26:01.369 --> 01:26:04.310
a solo if you wanted to. But, I mean, let's be

01:26:04.310 --> 01:26:09.850
honest. A little gaslighting. This is for everybody.

01:26:09.949 --> 01:26:12.829
It's OK. Yeah, OK. You guys will love it. It'll

01:26:12.829 --> 01:26:16.569
be great. And then what I eventually learned,

01:26:16.609 --> 01:26:18.609
which I didn't know at the time, is as we went

01:26:18.609 --> 01:26:22.779
in to make songs from Black Mountain, Ed sent

01:26:22.779 --> 01:26:29.560
us again through lawyers. He sent us like a band

01:26:29.560 --> 01:26:31.699
member agreement. Yeah, no discussion again.

01:26:32.199 --> 01:26:34.039
No discussion, no anything like it. But he sent

01:26:34.039 --> 01:26:36.220
us a band member agreement that basically said,

01:26:36.800 --> 01:26:39.720
you guys will sign this or I'm leaving the band.

01:26:39.840 --> 01:26:42.699
And that agreement assigned Ed the majority control

01:26:42.699 --> 01:26:47.319
of all the songwriting. Wow. And so I've never

01:26:47.319 --> 01:26:48.960
talked about that before. And only him getting

01:26:48.960 --> 01:26:51.000
credit on the records from them forward. Yes,

01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.579
that's correct. Right. And I never talked about

01:26:53.579 --> 01:26:56.340
it before, because I just thought it was bad

01:26:56.340 --> 01:26:59.359
for business. Sure. That's our business behind

01:26:59.359 --> 01:27:03.100
the scenes. But it was so aggressive that at

01:27:03.100 --> 01:27:06.140
some point, Ed had actually poked Patrick in

01:27:06.140 --> 01:27:08.380
the chest. And he said, you just remember I am

01:27:08.380 --> 01:27:11.600
live. Wow. And I only know that because Patrick's

01:27:11.600 --> 01:27:14.180
mom told me that story recently. And I was like,

01:27:14.199 --> 01:27:17.380
dude, I was like, what was I? Again, I was probably

01:27:17.380 --> 01:27:19.840
over lost and like never never landed drinking

01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:22.779
or something Like what was I doing like because

01:27:22.779 --> 01:27:25.100
that's a moment where you say this is a crisis

01:27:25.100 --> 01:27:27.939
intervention. Don't do that Yeah, and Patrick

01:27:27.939 --> 01:27:31.119
said, you know, he was basically at home and

01:27:31.119 --> 01:27:33.479
you know completely and I'm not trying to speak

01:27:33.479 --> 01:27:35.119
out a term I'm sure it's something that Patrick

01:27:35.119 --> 01:27:38.039
himself should should and can't express but that

01:27:38.039 --> 01:27:41.260
he was feeling like well I just have new babies

01:27:41.260 --> 01:27:43.300
and I have a family to take care of. I can't

01:27:43.300 --> 01:27:46.039
really quit the band, but in his spirit, he wanted

01:27:46.039 --> 01:27:50.840
to quit. Sure. And I told him, I said, Look,

01:27:50.840 --> 01:27:52.779
you know, we got on a phone call. We're, you

01:27:52.779 --> 01:27:54.819
know, we're all tight. And we called each other

01:27:54.819 --> 01:27:57.479
and said, Look, we're big boys. Maybe this is

01:27:57.479 --> 01:28:00.420
just a phase. Let's just, you know, put our best

01:28:00.420 --> 01:28:03.010
effort in. And then that turned into songs from

01:28:03.010 --> 01:28:05.329
Black Mountain. And I went into Jim Wirt, who

01:28:05.329 --> 01:28:07.789
was the producer, who I just love. Jim's a great

01:28:07.789 --> 01:28:12.149
guy. And I said, look, Jim, I know I'm not here

01:28:12.149 --> 01:28:16.329
as a songwriter. I made a deal with him. I said,

01:28:16.550 --> 01:28:21.250
he taught me one Beatles song per day. And I

01:28:21.250 --> 01:28:23.810
just played whatever part he wanted me to play.

01:28:24.289 --> 01:28:27.310
So when I say I put nothing into the record,

01:28:28.600 --> 01:28:33.359
I just, like, I didn't like the songs. I was

01:28:33.359 --> 01:28:36.180
like, you know, well, almost like I was a computer

01:28:36.180 --> 01:28:38.460
program. Like, I'll just try and show up and

01:28:38.460 --> 01:28:41.319
be professional, not be argumentative or anything.

01:28:41.659 --> 01:28:44.000
Be a pro and just submit myself to the process.

01:28:44.539 --> 01:28:46.460
Then later on, I learned, well, Gracie was doing

01:28:46.460 --> 01:28:48.420
the same thing. Patrick was doing the same thing.

01:28:48.439 --> 01:28:52.460
So what you got really was a compromise in two

01:28:52.460 --> 01:28:54.899
layers, which was, the songs from Black Mountain

01:28:54.899 --> 01:28:57.920
should have been Ed's first solo album. and he

01:28:57.920 --> 01:29:00.680
should have had professional side musicians that

01:29:00.680 --> 01:29:02.979
would have amplified and made those songs better.

01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:06.500
But instead what you got was essentially a watered

01:29:06.500 --> 01:29:09.739
down live record. Now what stinks about that

01:29:09.739 --> 01:29:12.460
is there were people that were like, well, Ed

01:29:12.460 --> 01:29:14.460
ought to have the right to make a solo record,

01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:16.899
et cetera, all those things. I wouldn't disagree.

01:29:17.199 --> 01:29:18.960
I think even Ed should have the right to be able

01:29:18.960 --> 01:29:21.199
to say, fuck you guys, I don't like you, I want

01:29:21.199 --> 01:29:23.960
to leave. What I didn't like was that it was

01:29:23.960 --> 01:29:26.119
all delivered underhanded and through lawyers.

01:29:26.560 --> 01:29:28.899
And yeah, you know, like, it's just like, there's

01:29:28.899 --> 01:29:32.979
no integrity to the process. Right. And so and

01:29:32.979 --> 01:29:36.020
by the way, I did a very poor job at that time

01:29:36.020 --> 01:29:39.100
of expressing these things to Ed. Like, for example,

01:29:39.560 --> 01:29:41.899
if I was so unhappy, well, then I wouldn't call

01:29:41.899 --> 01:29:45.079
up Ed and say, Look, I'm really unhappy. Instead,

01:29:45.140 --> 01:29:47.710
what I did was like I was like, Well, this is

01:29:47.710 --> 01:29:50.369
toxic. This is terrible. I have also a family

01:29:50.369 --> 01:29:52.510
that I'm trying to take care of. I had very young

01:29:52.510 --> 01:29:56.409
children at the time. I just drank more. And

01:29:56.409 --> 01:29:58.670
that's not a cop out. I'm just telling you, I

01:29:58.670 --> 01:30:00.569
have the maturity and I have the conversations.

01:30:01.130 --> 01:30:03.729
And in terms of management leadership, the guys

01:30:03.729 --> 01:30:05.970
that kind of had us in the cradle turns were

01:30:05.970 --> 01:30:08.590
Sestek and Friedman. Well, they were gone. Kurifrist

01:30:08.590 --> 01:30:13.399
at this point was a veteran. His artists are

01:30:13.399 --> 01:30:15.680
like Bob Marley, James Addiction, The Ramones,

01:30:15.880 --> 01:30:18.220
Talking Heads. I mean, he had a legacy career

01:30:18.220 --> 01:30:21.920
long before he even had life. And he was a little

01:30:21.920 --> 01:30:24.619
checked out at that time. And I don't know that

01:30:24.619 --> 01:30:27.539
he was protecting the whole of the band. And

01:30:27.539 --> 01:30:29.239
so I was like, well, I guess this is what the

01:30:29.239 --> 01:30:32.680
industry wants. So. Fuck it, just whatever, here

01:30:32.680 --> 01:30:34.500
you go. And then next thing you know, we're going

01:30:34.500 --> 01:30:37.600
la da de da, da da da da, whatever. I'm like,

01:30:37.779 --> 01:30:41.840
what the fuck is this? I showed up to the video

01:30:41.840 --> 01:30:43.600
set. I'm not joking. I had to pull the director

01:30:43.600 --> 01:30:45.760
aside and I said, can I get a boombox or something?

01:30:45.840 --> 01:30:49.119
I had to learn the guitar parts the day of the

01:30:49.119 --> 01:30:51.560
video shoot, because I was so disconnected from

01:30:51.560 --> 01:30:54.100
the whole process. And by the way, I'm not mocking

01:30:54.100 --> 01:30:56.420
that song, by the way. Which video do we shoot

01:30:56.420 --> 01:31:01.039
in Amsterdam? I can't even remember the song,

01:31:01.220 --> 01:31:06.520
Chad. You and I are just in the background like

01:31:06.520 --> 01:31:11.340
laughing like this is fucking stupid. Yeah. So

01:31:11.340 --> 01:31:14.319
that was that why I got to give that song credit

01:31:14.319 --> 01:31:17.100
from song from Wings was bomb. That was a good.

01:31:17.100 --> 01:31:20.579
That was a good one on that one. Yeah, that's

01:31:20.579 --> 01:31:23.579
a great song. There's nothing wrong. There's

01:31:23.579 --> 01:31:25.859
nothing wrong with a single one of those songs

01:31:25.859 --> 01:31:28.140
that you should have not been a live album. Right.

01:31:28.439 --> 01:31:31.220
No, a hundred percent. I have a question. So

01:31:31.220 --> 01:31:35.439
it seems like the four of you in general around

01:31:35.439 --> 01:31:38.659
the time from songs from Black Mountain, but

01:31:38.659 --> 01:31:41.260
maybe even a little bit earlier, maybe weren't

01:31:41.260 --> 01:31:45.199
communicating personally as best as you should

01:31:45.199 --> 01:31:47.380
be. Like it seems like maybe you guys got to

01:31:47.380 --> 01:31:50.600
concerts performed and then kind of got off stage,

01:31:50.600 --> 01:31:56.079
whatever. And you picked up on that crazy. Nice

01:31:56.079 --> 01:31:58.659
job. I mean, Patrick, Chad and I were communicating,

01:31:58.859 --> 01:32:00.119
but we weren't communicating with that. That

01:32:00.119 --> 01:32:02.920
wasn't communicating with us. That's I mean,

01:32:02.979 --> 01:32:04.779
well, because I'm just wondering, like, why would

01:32:04.779 --> 01:32:08.260
he send, like, it, like, don't even briefly mention,

01:32:08.460 --> 01:32:10.319
Hey guys, by the way, like, I want to put this

01:32:10.319 --> 01:32:12.600
terminology in this agreement for songs from

01:32:12.600 --> 01:32:14.960
black mountain. Like it just seems so backhanded

01:32:14.960 --> 01:32:17.899
and like, How would he expect you guys to react

01:32:17.899 --> 01:32:20.319
to that? It just seems he put you in an impossible

01:32:20.319 --> 01:32:23.340
situation. He didn't care. He didn't care how

01:32:23.340 --> 01:32:26.140
we reacted to it. As long as we signed what he

01:32:26.140 --> 01:32:27.779
wanted us to sign. And then if we didn't sign,

01:32:27.819 --> 01:32:31.479
he was going to leave. Yeah. And so, but that's

01:32:31.479 --> 01:32:33.760
our fault, right? That's not it. I'll take blame

01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:35.979
for that. That's our fault. Like when somebody

01:32:35.979 --> 01:32:38.239
is telling you what they really want, which is

01:32:38.239 --> 01:32:39.939
to leave, like you're supposed to say to them,

01:32:40.020 --> 01:32:42.399
well, OK, then like if I'm not good enough for

01:32:42.399 --> 01:32:45.180
you, then you should leave. Yeah. I think for

01:32:45.180 --> 01:32:47.739
me, I'll just speak from the side of being a

01:32:47.739 --> 01:32:50.260
husband and a father. I was scared to death to

01:32:50.260 --> 01:32:52.979
lose my living. That's all I really knew how

01:32:52.979 --> 01:32:56.920
to do was be a member in a band. And we had been

01:32:56.920 --> 01:32:59.380
blessed enough to really make amazing money.

01:33:00.619 --> 01:33:04.439
So I was best qualified to be a barista at Starbucks.

01:33:05.700 --> 01:33:08.359
And, you know, like, oh, it was economic. But

01:33:08.359 --> 01:33:11.119
also, as I said earlier, we were about the band.

01:33:11.159 --> 01:33:12.880
We wanted to keep the band together no matter

01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:16.119
what. Like, yeah, maybe when we hope that down

01:33:16.119 --> 01:33:18.399
the line, it would, you know, he would go out

01:33:18.399 --> 01:33:21.420
and get out of this phase of I'm fucking live.

01:33:21.800 --> 01:33:23.699
Yeah. And come back and like want to do shit

01:33:23.699 --> 01:33:27.060
the old way. And we had we even had that. I even

01:33:27.060 --> 01:33:29.539
had that expectation or that hope when we came

01:33:29.539 --> 01:33:31.800
back together in 16. I hope, oh, man, let's get

01:33:31.800 --> 01:33:34.180
in a room and do some songs. And we never did.

01:33:34.380 --> 01:33:36.739
I call him. I say, I'm coming to York. I'm going

01:33:36.739 --> 01:33:38.380
to be there for a week. Come on down. Never,

01:33:38.520 --> 01:33:41.060
never would come down. Like, okay, guess we're

01:33:41.060 --> 01:33:43.880
not doing that. Yeah. Here we are. There's so

01:33:43.880 --> 01:33:47.460
much pain. Yeah. For anybody that's listening,

01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:49.340
here's an intriguing thing, right? When I talk

01:33:49.340 --> 01:33:52.460
about like praying for these guys and like, I

01:33:52.460 --> 01:33:55.119
mean, I put in some prayers to be forgiven because

01:33:55.119 --> 01:33:58.960
I guarantee you, like I did like some fucked

01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:01.680
up shit to Ed that probably he doesn't like.

01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:06.180
didn't deserve or whatever. We were all just

01:34:06.180 --> 01:34:08.180
trying to find our own version of happiness.

01:34:08.359 --> 01:34:10.920
And then there's also a weird thing, which is

01:34:10.920 --> 01:34:14.079
these four guys and the pressure on us to get

01:34:14.079 --> 01:34:16.739
along, to release new records, to do it. Even

01:34:16.739 --> 01:34:19.180
the fans now are like, you know, we're, you know,

01:34:19.239 --> 01:34:21.460
we're for all sense of purpose, as you know,

01:34:21.600 --> 01:34:24.359
not on stage together. And, you know, if you

01:34:24.359 --> 01:34:25.739
read the first comments, like, when are you guys

01:34:25.739 --> 01:34:28.060
getting back together? When will you play? Well,

01:34:28.060 --> 01:34:29.899
we felt that pressure since the time we were

01:34:29.899 --> 01:34:34.619
18, 19 year old kids. I think at the time away

01:34:34.619 --> 01:34:37.840
from the band has been like really healthy. Sure.

01:34:38.239 --> 01:34:43.140
And what I would want to always say is that while

01:34:43.140 --> 01:34:46.779
these stories are truthful and they're earnest

01:34:46.779 --> 01:34:48.659
and they're all those things, they're also just

01:34:48.659 --> 01:34:50.600
like part of the past. It's just part of the

01:34:50.600 --> 01:34:53.859
narrative. Like I don't hold ill will towards

01:34:53.859 --> 01:34:58.000
any of the bandmates. And that includes Ed. You

01:34:58.000 --> 01:34:59.560
know, somebody said, oh, you know, Ed won't want

01:34:59.560 --> 01:35:02.100
to watch this. Well, actually, I mean, maybe

01:35:02.100 --> 01:35:04.460
you would. I think he deserves an awful lot of

01:35:04.460 --> 01:35:07.159
credit for where we are. But I think that there

01:35:07.159 --> 01:35:11.520
are whatever. Like you mentioned Kurt Cobain

01:35:11.520 --> 01:35:13.739
earlier and his struggles and all those things.

01:35:14.640 --> 01:35:17.800
We each individually have our own strangeness

01:35:17.800 --> 01:35:20.460
and our own struggles. The fact that we face

01:35:20.460 --> 01:35:23.840
them as a collective. a very successful collective

01:35:23.840 --> 01:35:26.720
with a spotlight on us also makes it like, I

01:35:26.720 --> 01:35:29.100
mean, it's, it's, it's just odd and bizarre.

01:35:29.319 --> 01:35:31.600
I mean, I'm sure nobody else in one of these

01:35:31.600 --> 01:35:34.060
chats is like, well, I had to spend the rest

01:35:34.060 --> 01:35:36.079
of my life with like my three childhood best

01:35:36.079 --> 01:35:39.060
friends cooped up like in buses and hotels and

01:35:39.060 --> 01:35:43.880
stages, whatever. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, just as

01:35:43.880 --> 01:35:46.319
a, so let you guys know, kind of a thought I

01:35:46.319 --> 01:35:48.380
had as just a fan of yours is like growing. I'm

01:35:48.380 --> 01:35:50.819
like, This is great. You know, my favorite band,

01:35:50.939 --> 01:35:52.579
they'll never break up because they're like best

01:35:52.579 --> 01:35:54.680
friends from childhood and a blah, blah, blah,

01:35:54.699 --> 01:35:57.020
blah, blah. And then here we are now. But then

01:35:57.020 --> 01:35:58.720
when I talk about the story with people, they're

01:35:58.720 --> 01:36:01.300
like, think about it. When you are friends for

01:36:01.300 --> 01:36:04.659
that long, like it's very few and far between

01:36:04.659 --> 01:36:06.699
that you still talk to somebody you knew in,

01:36:06.699 --> 01:36:08.600
you know, say fifth grade. I happen to have a

01:36:08.600 --> 01:36:10.680
couple that I do, but it's you talk to people,

01:36:10.699 --> 01:36:13.279
they don't really stay in touch that long. So

01:36:13.279 --> 01:36:15.399
like you could see kind of the double edged sword

01:36:15.399 --> 01:36:18.239
about kind of growing up together, being so close.

01:36:18.539 --> 01:36:21.659
And then, you know, kind of getting the fame

01:36:21.659 --> 01:36:24.260
and everything so young and then still dealing

01:36:24.260 --> 01:36:27.939
with each other kind of on that mentality is

01:36:27.939 --> 01:36:30.079
almost like kids dealing with each other, you

01:36:30.079 --> 01:36:34.180
know? Yeah, it was. Well, don't you? You know,

01:36:34.180 --> 01:36:36.579
like one of the things that I worked on when

01:36:36.579 --> 01:36:39.920
I was working on the book, I found this great

01:36:39.920 --> 01:36:45.020
news article where Chad gives the interview and.

01:36:46.479 --> 01:36:49.199
I was very interested in his perspective and

01:36:49.199 --> 01:36:53.159
who he was at that point in time. And this was

01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:57.699
right around the release of Secrets of Mahdi.

01:36:58.840 --> 01:37:03.260
And the record label, of course, Likini's Juice

01:37:03.260 --> 01:37:05.960
came out and it blazed up the charts and it was

01:37:05.960 --> 01:37:09.920
insane. And then the record label picked Turn

01:37:09.920 --> 01:37:13.640
My Head as the next single. And Ed wrote Turn

01:37:13.640 --> 01:37:16.479
My Head. I mean, it's one of his most beautiful,

01:37:16.479 --> 01:37:19.579
amazing songs. I mean, it's heart wrenching.

01:37:20.560 --> 01:37:24.260
I'll play it just to myself. Yeah, it's beautiful.

01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:27.479
To just, I don't know, feel whole or together.

01:37:28.880 --> 01:37:32.560
And it was a very strange thing because the record

01:37:32.560 --> 01:37:35.060
label, I recognize this now, by the way. I didn't

01:37:35.060 --> 01:37:36.739
know it at the time. But the record label was

01:37:36.739 --> 01:37:40.500
trying to buy the next Lightning Crashes. And

01:37:40.500 --> 01:37:44.140
so what they did was we filmed like video one

01:37:44.140 --> 01:37:47.819
and then that got submitted to MTV while the

01:37:47.819 --> 01:37:50.039
song was like out charting on the alternative

01:37:50.039 --> 01:37:53.939
playlists and stuff. And it was a very, very

01:37:53.939 --> 01:37:57.359
beautiful but extraordinarily esoteric video.

01:37:58.199 --> 01:38:03.319
It's a single moving shot through. John registers,

01:38:03.680 --> 01:38:06.000
it was supposed to look like his paintings. And

01:38:06.000 --> 01:38:07.800
it moved very slowly through the whole thing.

01:38:07.800 --> 01:38:09.699
And at the very end, it just turns his head and

01:38:09.699 --> 01:38:13.659
looks into the camera. The most non MTV video

01:38:13.659 --> 01:38:16.539
that's ever been created by mankind. Yeah, real

01:38:16.539 --> 01:38:19.539
artsy. I think it probably cost a million dollars

01:38:19.539 --> 01:38:24.220
to make. Wow. Insane. Stupid. And then the record

01:38:24.220 --> 01:38:26.340
label to MTV is like, you know, barely playing

01:38:26.340 --> 01:38:28.500
the thing. It's just too, it's too out there

01:38:28.500 --> 01:38:32.689
for them. And then the record label, like, They

01:38:32.689 --> 01:38:35.850
hired Mary Lambert, who is famous for directing

01:38:35.850 --> 01:38:39.470
the movie Pet Sematary. They hired Mary Lambert

01:38:39.470 --> 01:38:42.130
to come in and to kind of like create an alternative

01:38:42.130 --> 01:38:44.250
version of it. It relied a little bit on some

01:38:44.250 --> 01:38:46.130
of the scenery that we painted, but it was more

01:38:46.130 --> 01:38:49.050
performance -oriented that we shot at the trust

01:38:49.050 --> 01:38:52.069
building in Lancaster, just a few blocks away

01:38:52.069 --> 01:38:56.289
from where we wrote Turn Copper. And they were

01:38:56.289 --> 01:38:58.420
just... like they were doing everything in their

01:38:58.420 --> 01:39:01.739
power throwing money behind the song and the

01:39:01.739 --> 01:39:04.920
song just it wouldn't get air underneath its

01:39:04.920 --> 01:39:07.640
wings like they were fighting for something that

01:39:07.640 --> 01:39:10.140
wasn't there and the point was about Chad's interview

01:39:10.140 --> 01:39:16.600
to give you perspective like he he said something

01:39:16.600 --> 01:39:20.840
like that'll either sell a couple million records

01:39:20.840 --> 01:39:24.619
or we'll just move on to the next song Like as

01:39:24.619 --> 01:39:27.699
though, like selling millions of records was

01:39:27.699 --> 01:39:29.840
like, I'm just going to add some sugar in my

01:39:29.840 --> 01:39:33.399
coffee. Just the most normal thing. But what

01:39:33.399 --> 01:39:36.199
it tells you is how our perspective about selling

01:39:36.199 --> 01:39:38.680
records and what that meant commercial success

01:39:38.680 --> 01:39:42.079
had changed so much. But I think that moments

01:39:42.079 --> 01:39:45.760
like that also slowly began to fracture the band.

01:39:46.520 --> 01:39:48.960
How does that feel when you're that songwriter

01:39:48.960 --> 01:39:53.949
and you wrote this beautiful, amazing completely

01:39:53.949 --> 01:39:57.449
just one of the best songs that live ever had.

01:39:57.869 --> 01:40:00.689
And yet that doesn't do what Lightning Crashes

01:40:00.689 --> 01:40:04.470
did. Right. Just opposed to Likini's. And I started

01:40:04.470 --> 01:40:06.010
looking back to these things. So like, well,

01:40:06.010 --> 01:40:08.529
I think that's the basket of resentment where

01:40:08.529 --> 01:40:12.210
resentments begin to build. And by the way, I'm

01:40:12.210 --> 01:40:13.970
stupid in the whole thing. Like I'm still walking

01:40:13.970 --> 01:40:16.609
around just like, well, just it's all for one

01:40:16.609 --> 01:40:19.680
being a band. Don't know we're having the best

01:40:19.680 --> 01:40:21.840
times of her life. This is all fun I don't think

01:40:21.840 --> 01:40:24.319
that was really true for Ed at that time I do

01:40:24.319 --> 01:40:26.340
not think that he was having I think first of

01:40:26.340 --> 01:40:28.060
all he was the front man So he was dealing with

01:40:28.060 --> 01:40:31.500
I like nothing trains you to be famous So there's

01:40:31.500 --> 01:40:34.000
that right that right weirdness We were already

01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:36.760
very strange guys to begin with and not adding

01:40:36.760 --> 01:40:39.399
any excuses But like we weren't the easiest band

01:40:39.399 --> 01:40:43.390
-mates in the world That's just the truth. A

01:40:43.390 --> 01:40:47.310
lot of bams are dictated. It's a dictatorial

01:40:47.310 --> 01:40:50.189
environment where it's a John Bon Jovi that's

01:40:50.189 --> 01:40:51.989
like, hey, you guys maintain your space and do

01:40:51.989 --> 01:40:55.270
your thing. And Richie, we'll tolerate Richie

01:40:55.270 --> 01:40:57.130
because he helps write some good songs. But everybody

01:40:57.130 --> 01:41:00.310
else, toe the line. Get in your place. I'm not

01:41:00.310 --> 01:41:02.149
picking on those guys, by the way. They have.

01:41:02.350 --> 01:41:04.670
their own system and it works. And one of the

01:41:04.670 --> 01:41:06.829
reasons why it works is because there is a dictator.

01:41:07.170 --> 01:41:09.729
But when you start when you're 13 or 15 or whatever

01:41:09.729 --> 01:41:11.970
we were when you're kids, I mean, you're just

01:41:11.970 --> 01:41:14.270
making up as you go. We didn't understand those

01:41:14.270 --> 01:41:20.510
rules. Yeah. Oh, man. It's just crazy that know,

01:41:20.510 --> 01:41:23.649
like just kind of egos or just thoughts that

01:41:23.649 --> 01:41:25.609
shouldn't even been in the band kind of got in

01:41:25.609 --> 01:41:27.510
the way of the band. Cause when you guys were

01:41:27.510 --> 01:41:30.069
firing on all four cylinders, it was just fucking,

01:41:30.270 --> 01:41:32.170
you guys were making some of the best music out

01:41:32.170 --> 01:41:35.529
there. It's just the, the, I think what is coming

01:41:35.529 --> 01:41:40.029
across from this podcast in general is that while

01:41:40.029 --> 01:41:43.569
there's a lot of hurt here, there's still doors

01:41:43.569 --> 01:41:47.029
open for the four of you guys to collaborate

01:41:47.029 --> 01:41:49.329
in the future. If, if stuff gets talked about

01:41:49.329 --> 01:41:51.960
like It doesn't seem like it's like there seems

01:41:51.960 --> 01:41:53.699
like there's still a lot of love between the

01:41:53.699 --> 01:41:56.260
four, even though there might be personal and

01:41:56.260 --> 01:41:59.300
other things going on is like kind of the vibe

01:41:59.300 --> 01:42:01.880
I get. Well, Mr. Gracie may be saying something

01:42:01.880 --> 01:42:07.300
different. There might be their love here on

01:42:07.300 --> 01:42:10.560
this podcast. And I think Patrick is coming around,

01:42:10.699 --> 01:42:13.600
but I don't know. I don't know about it. Yeah,

01:42:14.079 --> 01:42:16.939
I think he's lost and lost calls, but I'll never

01:42:16.939 --> 01:42:22.270
say never. Unfortunately, that shit goes down

01:42:22.270 --> 01:42:25.210
and there's resentment and we don't even know

01:42:25.210 --> 01:42:27.989
where the initial resentment really came from.

01:42:28.649 --> 01:42:32.029
Right. I want to quote Don Henley here when hell

01:42:32.029 --> 01:42:35.109
freezes over. Right. Well, then there's that.

01:42:36.920 --> 01:42:38.880
I made this prediction when we first started

01:42:38.880 --> 01:42:40.859
this podcast. I said, well, if worse comes to

01:42:40.859 --> 01:42:43.439
worse, we know you guys are going to reunite

01:42:43.439 --> 01:42:45.079
when you guys get inducted into the Rock and

01:42:45.079 --> 01:42:47.140
Roll Hall of Fame. And I still stand by that

01:42:47.140 --> 01:42:49.460
statement that when you guys do, there will be

01:42:49.460 --> 01:42:52.119
some sort of the four of you on stage jamming,

01:42:52.119 --> 01:42:54.739
even if there's plexiglass dividing you four

01:42:54.739 --> 01:42:57.359
so you can't get in the physical same space.

01:42:57.359 --> 01:43:02.060
I'm not doing that ever again. Gracie back in

01:43:02.060 --> 01:43:04.060
the fish tank and me looking at him during a

01:43:04.060 --> 01:43:07.439
concert like. Love you, buddy. Are you in there?

01:43:07.479 --> 01:43:11.260
Like I'm visiting like a lost puppy at the shelter.

01:43:11.500 --> 01:43:15.239
Like are you okay? Like what can I be like help?

01:43:15.699 --> 01:43:18.539
Well, what does that do? So does that like what

01:43:18.539 --> 01:43:21.199
was the point of the plexiglass? Like is it sound?

01:43:22.100 --> 01:43:24.779
So it like your drums were affecting his ears

01:43:24.779 --> 01:43:27.520
on stage. Does that plexiglass really mute the

01:43:27.520 --> 01:43:31.079
sound that much? I would yeah, I mean the cymbals

01:43:31.079 --> 01:43:41.279
down. Yeah Gotcha. Yeah. And to be fair, we were

01:43:41.279 --> 01:43:45.199
at a transition there in between live stage monitors

01:43:45.199 --> 01:43:47.979
and in -ears. That was a technological change

01:43:47.979 --> 01:43:52.439
in the way artists are using monitors on stage.

01:43:53.260 --> 01:43:55.520
You know, we just had to unfortunately live through

01:43:55.520 --> 01:43:57.439
that, through that thing. But again, I think

01:43:57.439 --> 01:44:02.810
just as a band, you know, like I don't... We

01:44:02.810 --> 01:44:04.489
just didn't handle any of those situations. We

01:44:04.489 --> 01:44:07.569
were terrible at that. And there's also a vacancy

01:44:07.569 --> 01:44:10.529
in leadership. I mean, all due respect to the

01:44:10.529 --> 01:44:13.770
guy that wound up managing live in the long run.

01:44:14.090 --> 01:44:16.630
I didn't even know who he was. I mean, I thought

01:44:16.630 --> 01:44:21.649
he was a fucking intern putz. And I really mean

01:44:21.649 --> 01:44:24.930
that. I'm not trying to. I'm sure that he showed

01:44:24.930 --> 01:44:27.550
up every day and worked. But I didn't know he

01:44:27.550 --> 01:44:30.500
started in the Peter Friedman camp. He's one

01:44:30.500 --> 01:44:32.819
of those guys that just out -survived everybody.

01:44:33.819 --> 01:44:36.579
Peter Friedman died. He was still around. So

01:44:36.579 --> 01:44:38.500
he worked under Kerfors. And then Kerfors died.

01:44:39.020 --> 01:44:43.100
And then he was the last man standing. So when

01:44:43.100 --> 01:44:48.539
I say there was a vacancy, there was no Irving

01:44:48.539 --> 01:44:51.060
Azoff in our camp that would step up and say,

01:44:51.199 --> 01:44:54.000
Irving Azoff is famously the guy that basically

01:44:54.000 --> 01:44:58.840
told Don Henley. or Glenn Fry to like shut the

01:44:58.840 --> 01:45:02.739
fuck up. Like, you know, we probably needed that.

01:45:02.739 --> 01:45:05.039
We needed a strong outside leader that would

01:45:05.039 --> 01:45:07.739
have come in and said, look, if you're either

01:45:07.739 --> 01:45:09.579
gonna do it my way or I'm gonna bash your heads

01:45:09.579 --> 01:45:12.079
together, whatever you take, you know. Irving

01:45:12.079 --> 01:45:14.020
Azal, for example, would have been powerful enough

01:45:14.020 --> 01:45:16.680
to say, I'll just blacklist you. You won't work

01:45:16.680 --> 01:45:19.760
at all again. And I think that we would have

01:45:19.760 --> 01:45:22.520
listened. Yeah, what we got was a yes man for

01:45:22.520 --> 01:45:25.289
Ed. That's it. Period. And that's not what you

01:45:25.289 --> 01:45:29.170
needed at all. She did not need to feed that.

01:45:29.310 --> 01:45:33.550
The yeses to that. Yeah. Good, Chad. I'm sorry.

01:45:34.630 --> 01:45:38.229
No, it's all right. I edited myself. All right.

01:45:38.369 --> 01:45:41.369
Well, then that's a good time to go to the voicemail.

01:45:41.369 --> 01:45:45.869
Gentlemen, we've got to check one of these boys

01:45:45.869 --> 01:45:49.189
out. I always do that. I go to click the play

01:45:49.189 --> 01:45:53.060
screen minutes long. Oh, boy. Yeah. Thank God

01:45:53.060 --> 01:45:55.220
we, and we don't know what they're saying here.

01:45:57.159 --> 01:46:01.699
Good morning, mr. Gracie. Good morning, mr. Taylor.

01:46:02.380 --> 01:46:05.819
This is the Z man up here in the Poconos. What

01:46:05.819 --> 01:46:10.300
a brilliant, bright, wonderful new day we have

01:46:10.300 --> 01:46:14.300
here today that you two guys got back together

01:46:14.300 --> 01:46:18.420
in the studio and hopefully hash it out, sat

01:46:18.420 --> 01:46:21.760
down, gave each other some hugs. Maybe shed some

01:46:21.760 --> 01:46:25.399
tears But this is a start and it's great to see

01:46:25.399 --> 01:46:28.520
you two Guys back together that have been friends

01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:32.140
forever. Like Gracie said band therapy, you know

01:46:32.140 --> 01:46:34.880
Everybody makes mistakes and fucks up and does

01:46:34.880 --> 01:46:37.119
things and says things they shouldn't say to

01:46:37.119 --> 01:46:40.359
each other That's just a part of life. But in

01:46:40.359 --> 01:46:43.500
reality you go back to what started on where

01:46:43.500 --> 01:46:48.300
the friendship began And God honestly, it's great

01:46:48.300 --> 01:46:51.689
to see you two guys back together Congratulations.

01:46:52.029 --> 01:46:55.210
Love you the best of luck to both of you Now

01:46:55.210 --> 01:46:56.949
let me come down to sing some songs with you

01:46:56.949 --> 01:47:03.449
fuckers. Yeah Z man Maybe so the rest of the

01:47:03.449 --> 01:47:05.390
thing is just blank. All right, cool. So he didn't

01:47:05.390 --> 01:47:08.409
have got nothing up. Yeah scratching in his pocket

01:47:08.409 --> 01:47:13.970
now Well, that was Well, thank you, man. It's

01:47:13.970 --> 01:47:16.869
great to hear from you man. He's awesome agreed.

01:47:16.970 --> 01:47:20.159
Yeah, Chris the link up Yeah, we've never been

01:47:20.159 --> 01:47:23.619
without with any shortage of incredibly warm

01:47:23.619 --> 01:47:27.300
smart sweet and intelligent People that make

01:47:27.300 --> 01:47:30.600
up our fan base and it's also nice to have that

01:47:30.600 --> 01:47:33.800
fan base as adults It was very difficult to have

01:47:33.800 --> 01:47:36.039
a fan base as kids like I didn't know what to

01:47:36.039 --> 01:47:38.659
do with that Now I look at it like we can relate

01:47:38.659 --> 01:47:41.279
adult to doll like I've get into so many conversations

01:47:41.279 --> 01:47:43.180
with people and I'm like Oh, what do you do?

01:47:43.239 --> 01:47:45.619
What are you into? What's your family like? But

01:47:45.619 --> 01:47:49.029
like there's a lot of commonality Now, when we

01:47:49.029 --> 01:47:51.489
were kids, it didn't feel so much that way for

01:47:51.489 --> 01:47:54.210
sure. And you guys got into the stratosphere

01:47:54.210 --> 01:47:57.390
so young. I mean, by 18, you know, you're here

01:47:57.390 --> 01:47:59.329
in Operation Spirit pain lies on the Riverside

01:47:59.329 --> 01:48:03.229
on MTV and stuff. So it's like you kind of got

01:48:03.229 --> 01:48:05.750
thrust into that limelight early. So it's like,

01:48:05.890 --> 01:48:07.729
you know, you don't know how to deal with everything

01:48:07.729 --> 01:48:12.479
at that young age and all that jazz. And it could

01:48:12.479 --> 01:48:14.560
have been worse because I think Chad said that

01:48:14.560 --> 01:48:17.140
was Nickelodeon or Disney looking at you guys

01:48:17.140 --> 01:48:18.899
saying that you maybe should change to a boy

01:48:18.899 --> 01:48:22.279
band or something in the early stages. That was

01:48:22.279 --> 01:48:25.359
it wasn't wasn't Disney records, but it was a

01:48:25.359 --> 01:48:27.100
label that was with Disney. Right. What the fuck

01:48:27.100 --> 01:48:30.239
was it called? Yeah, I can't remember, but it

01:48:30.239 --> 01:48:32.899
was two two ladies that came up to watch us and

01:48:32.899 --> 01:48:36.779
we did a private showcase for them. And they

01:48:36.779 --> 01:48:39.020
were like, like we got done. We played a couple

01:48:39.020 --> 01:48:41.789
of songs. They were like, hey, sit down, guys.

01:48:41.869 --> 01:48:43.510
Can we ask you some questions and stuff? They

01:48:43.510 --> 01:48:46.869
were like, amazing show. You guys are so talented.

01:48:47.069 --> 01:48:49.909
We really want to sign you. And we're here and

01:48:49.909 --> 01:48:52.989
everything. For us, we're like, holy shit. Wow.

01:48:53.750 --> 01:48:58.689
And then maybe 10 questions in, one of the girls

01:48:58.689 --> 01:49:06.909
said, so can you guys dance? Hand to God. Wow.

01:49:07.869 --> 01:49:10.229
That was a trip. We kind of all looked at each

01:49:10.229 --> 01:49:13.789
other and we were like, what the hell is going

01:49:13.789 --> 01:49:17.909
on? What did they just say? And I think I'm trying

01:49:17.909 --> 01:49:19.949
to be politically correct and say, I mean, like,

01:49:20.170 --> 01:49:22.829
well, I mean, we can dance, but no one wants

01:49:22.829 --> 01:49:26.310
to see us do it. Yeah. Four white boys from York.

01:49:27.170 --> 01:49:29.810
Yeah. No. So we could have been, you know, I

01:49:29.810 --> 01:49:31.590
don't know, new kids on the block or something

01:49:31.590 --> 01:49:33.930
like that right at that time. That's hysterical.

01:49:34.250 --> 01:49:37.010
Um, I think this is a cool question for you guys.

01:49:37.170 --> 01:49:39.350
Any fave song that you wish you played more in

01:49:39.350 --> 01:49:41.609
concert? I'm still wishing you played, uh, feel

01:49:41.609 --> 01:49:44.329
the quiet river rage, uh, the whole song at some

01:49:44.329 --> 01:49:48.789
point in concert from Ryan Etchelman. Anything

01:49:48.789 --> 01:49:53.170
you guys wish you played more in concert? I wish

01:49:53.170 --> 01:49:55.649
we played freaks more. I like playing freaks.

01:49:55.890 --> 01:49:59.090
Yeah. The last, especially the last tours we

01:49:59.090 --> 01:50:02.069
did in 17, 18, 19, we didn't, you know, play

01:50:02.069 --> 01:50:06.819
too much of a, uh, eclectics set list. We were

01:50:06.819 --> 01:50:11.020
sticking to the old faithfuls, the head. We rehearsed

01:50:11.020 --> 01:50:12.659
a bunch of other songs, but apparently they didn't

01:50:12.659 --> 01:50:18.800
want to be done. So what do you do? Um, was 1998.

01:50:18.800 --> 01:50:21.359
I'll probably get blamed for that too. Go ahead,

01:50:21.399 --> 01:50:23.560
Chad. I'm sorry. I said, I'll probably get blamed

01:50:23.560 --> 01:50:26.359
for that too. Of course. Yeah. Oh yeah. Come

01:50:26.359 --> 01:50:31.399
on now. Uh, was 1998 a good creative year for

01:50:31.399 --> 01:50:34.010
you guys? Cause it seemed like, um, I think you

01:50:34.010 --> 01:50:36.829
guys were writing the distance at the time. And

01:50:36.829 --> 01:50:38.689
I don't know if you were performing a lot of

01:50:38.689 --> 01:50:40.869
concerts during that year, but you performed

01:50:40.869 --> 01:50:44.329
one in New Jersey at the stone pony and you only

01:50:44.329 --> 01:50:47.390
played four songs I ever heard before. Like it

01:50:47.390 --> 01:50:50.170
was maybe three or four of throwing copper and

01:50:50.170 --> 01:50:52.149
the rest were like all new songs that were going

01:50:52.149 --> 01:50:55.729
to be on the distance to hear. And there was

01:50:55.729 --> 01:50:59.189
some that didn't make it to there that were absolutely.

01:50:59.350 --> 01:51:01.510
I think some of the best live music out there.

01:51:01.600 --> 01:51:04.399
But it just seemed like a crazy cool time for

01:51:04.399 --> 01:51:06.680
you guys creatively musically was like that a

01:51:06.680 --> 01:51:12.199
good time for live So I'll you know, I'll so

01:51:12.199 --> 01:51:16.140
I lived on Wheatland Avenue in Lancaster here

01:51:16.140 --> 01:51:18.800
and that's before you could just email files

01:51:18.800 --> 01:51:21.460
back and forth you we were still relying on FedEx

01:51:21.460 --> 01:51:28.859
and I had just had one of my daughters and Ed

01:51:28.859 --> 01:51:32.859
told me you know, like don't worry about mastering

01:51:32.859 --> 01:51:37.220
I got it or you know, whatever and I'd normally

01:51:37.220 --> 01:51:40.180
attended all the mastering sessions and the FedEx

01:51:40.180 --> 01:51:42.840
showed up at my house had the Mastering CD in

01:51:42.840 --> 01:51:46.000
it to listen to and almost all my songs were

01:51:46.000 --> 01:51:51.659
off the record so There was don't wait change.

01:51:52.060 --> 01:51:55.100
Yes son all these amazing songs that were like

01:51:55.100 --> 01:51:59.960
hard heavy rockers and Don't know what I got

01:51:59.960 --> 01:52:02.000
told at the time I clearly agreed with it at

01:52:02.000 --> 01:52:04.439
the time which is you know I don't want to be

01:52:04.439 --> 01:52:06.439
revisionist because I really think the distance

01:52:06.439 --> 01:52:10.319
gear works as a collective but um that those

01:52:10.319 --> 01:52:12.760
songs just didn't work in the in the embodiment

01:52:12.760 --> 01:52:16.760
of the CD or whatever and So on that particular

01:52:16.760 --> 01:52:19.579
on that record I saw somebody write down earlier

01:52:19.579 --> 01:52:22.520
where fishes goes great I burnt that song brought

01:52:22.520 --> 01:52:26.500
that one into the world and then What's another

01:52:26.500 --> 01:52:30.420
oh and then they stood up for love So, you know,

01:52:30.460 --> 01:52:32.539
and really they stood up for love is the last

01:52:32.539 --> 01:52:34.960
time I ever really collaboratively worked with

01:52:34.960 --> 01:52:42.279
Ed. Wow. So that's such a killer song, too. For

01:52:42.279 --> 01:52:44.640
the last collaboration, and that's that's that's

01:52:44.640 --> 01:52:46.840
a good one. And it's kind of crazy. So there's

01:52:46.840 --> 01:52:48.699
like two arrangements of that song where it's

01:52:48.699 --> 01:52:51.520
like got that heavy guitar to it. And then there's

01:52:51.520 --> 01:52:53.739
like that stripped down piano version that kind

01:52:53.739 --> 01:52:56.180
of makes it like a like almost like a different

01:52:56.180 --> 01:52:58.010
song. even though lyrics are same, it's like

01:52:58.010 --> 01:53:03.689
kind of a different, a whole field to it. So

01:53:03.689 --> 01:53:05.909
let me ask you this, Chad, this, this is going

01:53:05.909 --> 01:53:07.270
to be a hard question for you because it does

01:53:07.270 --> 01:53:09.850
sound like you were so like, you know, live was

01:53:09.850 --> 01:53:11.529
a huge part of your life. Like the band, like

01:53:11.529 --> 01:53:14.050
you even said, like it seemed like family life

01:53:14.050 --> 01:53:16.369
might've been failing for you at some points.

01:53:16.369 --> 01:53:18.850
And what really woke you up was like the band

01:53:18.850 --> 01:53:22.170
leaving. So I kind of want to bring you back.

01:53:22.170 --> 01:53:25.300
Like, what was it like when Ed puts out this,

01:53:25.340 --> 01:53:27.300
I don't know if it was a tweet or an Instagram

01:53:27.300 --> 01:53:30.340
where he says like publicly firing you like that

01:53:30.340 --> 01:53:33.779
must have just been like. Well, how did what

01:53:33.779 --> 01:53:36.539
did that feel like when you got that that that

01:53:36.539 --> 01:53:39.840
news? Well, first of all, it's the most ridiculous

01:53:39.840 --> 01:53:41.380
thing in the world because you can't fire me

01:53:41.380 --> 01:53:44.800
from a band I started. So, you know, that's not

01:53:44.800 --> 01:53:50.060
actually legally the way it works. I but I understood

01:53:50.060 --> 01:53:52.300
from a spiritual place where Ed was at at that

01:53:52.300 --> 01:53:58.050
point. It was definitely a strange time. What

01:53:58.050 --> 01:54:01.970
I've been told is that there was a disagreement

01:54:01.970 --> 01:54:07.050
over a dance remix of Lightning Crashes. But

01:54:07.050 --> 01:54:09.829
I don't recall ever having a disagreement over

01:54:09.829 --> 01:54:11.909
a dance remix of Lightning Crashes, but I also

01:54:11.909 --> 01:54:14.590
don't remember Kurt Cobain remixing Smells Like

01:54:14.590 --> 01:54:19.359
Teen Spirit. So I don't know. I remember Eddie

01:54:19.359 --> 01:54:21.140
Vedder cutting off in the studio and creating

01:54:21.140 --> 01:54:24.380
that dance jam of the evening. It was awesome.

01:54:24.960 --> 01:54:28.119
Put it on every night. Yeah. You remember that

01:54:28.119 --> 01:54:30.699
great dance version that Chris Cornell went off

01:54:30.699 --> 01:54:33.159
and did of Super Unknown? Remember that? And

01:54:33.159 --> 01:54:35.460
then calling it better than the original. Yes,

01:54:35.460 --> 01:54:39.720
got it. Well, it transcends the original. Oh,

01:54:39.720 --> 01:54:41.180
it transcends. Yes, excuse me. That's correct.

01:54:41.460 --> 01:54:46.079
Oh my god. No, I don't know. You know, I kind

01:54:46.079 --> 01:54:48.880
of knew at that point, like the writing was on

01:54:48.880 --> 01:54:52.060
the wall that this is a strange thing. I mean,

01:54:52.060 --> 01:54:56.960
legally speaking. I mean, we could get together

01:54:56.960 --> 01:54:58.979
and go out and play shows as live. I mean, there's

01:54:58.979 --> 01:55:02.539
nothing stopping us from doing that. The only

01:55:02.539 --> 01:55:04.600
person that really can't do that is Ed, which

01:55:04.600 --> 01:55:08.180
is sort of an interesting twist to dueling lives,

01:55:08.180 --> 01:55:11.199
bro. We have to get this thing going here. Mr.

01:55:11.319 --> 01:55:13.579
Gracie and Mr. Taylor dueling lives. You guys

01:55:13.579 --> 01:55:17.039
go to the same city. See where the fans lie.

01:55:17.340 --> 01:55:19.640
See where the fans go. Well, I'm still not convinced

01:55:19.640 --> 01:55:21.460
I'm not going to show up and play these shows.

01:55:21.680 --> 01:55:26.449
I mean, oh, my God. Legally, if you follow all

01:55:26.449 --> 01:55:29.609
the all the paperwork, the contracts, the bylaws

01:55:29.609 --> 01:55:33.250
of certain corporations and et cetera, we're

01:55:33.250 --> 01:55:34.930
the only ones that can go out and play live.

01:55:35.310 --> 01:55:38.449
But what he's doing right now is not legal. It

01:55:38.449 --> 01:55:41.010
looks like I got to get on the Photoshop and

01:55:41.010 --> 01:55:45.649
remove those. Whatever is in the new live promo

01:55:45.649 --> 01:55:48.300
and put the real members back in there. That

01:55:48.300 --> 01:55:51.000
would be, uh, you know, and back, back to, you

01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:53.159
know, the firing of Chad, like, you know, so

01:55:53.159 --> 01:55:56.220
I was not happy with Chad at the time for whatever

01:55:56.220 --> 01:55:59.020
reasons that we are working through or work through.

01:55:59.840 --> 01:56:03.659
And I was told not directly by Ed, but an emissary

01:56:03.659 --> 01:56:06.500
that there was this big blow up about the lightning

01:56:06.500 --> 01:56:10.199
crashes remix. And so I, Ed came to me and said,

01:56:10.279 --> 01:56:12.340
Hey, you want to go on tour? I was like, sure.

01:56:12.420 --> 01:56:14.060
He's like, well, I want to fire Chad. I'm like,

01:56:14.359 --> 01:56:16.779
okay. I mean, unfortunately, that's where my

01:56:16.779 --> 01:56:19.520
mind was, but we've, we've worked through that.

01:56:19.840 --> 01:56:23.420
And, uh, I was like, yeah, let's go. And so the

01:56:23.420 --> 01:56:25.979
whole, the whole premise of the deal was I vote

01:56:25.979 --> 01:56:28.199
with you to fire Chad and I'm on the road with

01:56:28.199 --> 01:56:34.039
you. And then we signed the MOU and all of a

01:56:34.039 --> 01:56:35.939
sudden shows are played and I'm getting schedules

01:56:35.939 --> 01:56:39.119
and there's money and all of a sudden, no, sorry,

01:56:39.140 --> 01:56:40.500
I can't have you out. I don't want to deal with

01:56:40.500 --> 01:56:44.689
the drama. Oh, Okay. Well, that's not what this

01:56:44.689 --> 01:56:47.369
was supposed to be. And from my perspective,

01:56:47.430 --> 01:56:50.449
what I was told was that Ed, Chad and Patrick

01:56:50.449 --> 01:56:52.250
were going to continue three quarters of the

01:56:52.250 --> 01:56:54.869
original band carry forward without me. And I

01:56:54.869 --> 01:56:56.369
got to be honest with you. I was like, well,

01:56:56.430 --> 01:56:57.869
you know, whatever that's like, that's the way

01:56:57.869 --> 01:57:01.890
it goes. And I was also told, you know, it would

01:57:01.890 --> 01:57:03.729
be like a cooling off time period or something

01:57:03.729 --> 01:57:07.109
like that. So I gave my consent in that regard

01:57:07.109 --> 01:57:09.350
because I thought it was more important that

01:57:09.350 --> 01:57:11.590
three quarters of the band go forward. And of

01:57:11.590 --> 01:57:14.520
course, Turned around and like next thing, you

01:57:14.520 --> 01:57:16.960
know, like it's like announcing a tour with like,

01:57:17.079 --> 01:57:19.760
I don't know Anything but three -quarters of

01:57:19.760 --> 01:57:23.340
the original band. So yeah, it's it's a shame

01:57:23.340 --> 01:57:30.000
You know, it's it's a difficult thing to Like

01:57:30.000 --> 01:57:32.539
I don't know if I put coca -cola on a Pepsi can

01:57:32.539 --> 01:57:37.319
is it coca -cola? No, I saw a good name Ed in

01:57:37.319 --> 01:57:39.720
the Kowal checks. I'm like, that's probably better

01:57:41.310 --> 01:57:48.250
You know, I understand. I think that our ability

01:57:48.250 --> 01:57:50.130
to be able to go out and perform these songs

01:57:50.130 --> 01:57:52.310
for the fans and connect with the audience is

01:57:52.310 --> 01:57:54.010
something that we've each earned the right to

01:57:54.010 --> 01:57:57.289
do. We've all created this body of work and that

01:57:57.289 --> 01:58:00.550
we should all be able to play it. But my issue

01:58:00.550 --> 01:58:04.470
is let's just have an honest conversation. And

01:58:04.470 --> 01:58:06.939
that honest conversation looks like this. Ed

01:58:06.939 --> 01:58:08.899
doesn't want to work with you, Chad. He doesn't

01:58:08.899 --> 01:58:10.439
want to work with Patrick. And he doesn't want

01:58:10.439 --> 01:58:13.319
to work with me. And yet he wants to tour his

01:58:13.319 --> 01:58:16.619
life. Right. That doesn't add up. That doesn't

01:58:16.619 --> 01:58:19.000
add up. Right. But what I'm saying is that's

01:58:19.000 --> 01:58:22.039
the real honest approach. Yeah. Right. That's

01:58:22.039 --> 01:58:24.199
just being honest. But those conversations weren't

01:58:24.199 --> 01:58:26.880
had. Instead, there was like, you know, tomfoolery

01:58:26.880 --> 01:58:29.880
and trickery. Like, for example, one of the worst

01:58:29.880 --> 01:58:31.880
things that happened in that time period. So

01:58:31.880 --> 01:58:37.100
Chad, Patrick and myself, had an attorney, a

01:58:37.100 --> 01:58:42.260
guy named David Costner. And Costner was our

01:58:42.260 --> 01:58:45.779
attorney for more than a decade. And when I say

01:58:45.779 --> 01:58:48.619
our attorney, like he all the way back from The

01:58:48.619 --> 01:58:51.479
Gracious Few going forward, he was our representative

01:58:51.479 --> 01:58:56.579
and had nothing to do with Ed. And so this all

01:58:56.579 --> 01:58:59.739
these tensions like boil over everything and

01:58:59.739 --> 01:59:03.579
the band's manager. whatever, sent me an email

01:59:03.579 --> 01:59:05.460
and said this guy Dave Costner was going to reach

01:59:05.460 --> 01:59:07.539
out to have a conversation. Well, I thought my

01:59:07.539 --> 01:59:10.479
attorney was calling me. So of course I took

01:59:10.479 --> 01:59:13.600
the call. But it turns out he wasn't representing

01:59:13.600 --> 01:59:16.000
me. He wasn't representing Chad. He wasn't representing

01:59:16.000 --> 01:59:18.260
Patrick, even though he put in writing that he

01:59:18.260 --> 01:59:20.899
was a mediator. But he was actually representing

01:59:20.899 --> 01:59:24.520
Ed and his company. And so he basically used

01:59:24.520 --> 01:59:28.140
that insider information to, in legal terms,

01:59:28.479 --> 01:59:32.640
induce this agreement. And it was like, as long

01:59:32.640 --> 01:59:35.340
as this hand doesn't know what this hand is doing,

01:59:35.640 --> 01:59:38.899
I'll get my way. So we'll tell Taylor 3 quarters

01:59:38.899 --> 01:59:42.079
of the band is going to tour. And then we'll

01:59:42.079 --> 01:59:44.220
tell the other side that Taylor's going out,

01:59:44.260 --> 01:59:46.960
whatever, he's out of the band, et cetera. They

01:59:46.960 --> 01:59:49.500
sign agreements and suddenly you're all fucked.

01:59:50.000 --> 01:59:52.939
Yep. Yep. And it's called sleight of hand, but

01:59:52.939 --> 01:59:55.939
in legal terms, it's actually called fraud. Yeah,

01:59:56.060 --> 02:00:00.720
exactly. And in like a personal term, it's called

02:00:00.720 --> 02:00:03.060
being a douchebag and a fucking shitty friend.

02:00:03.239 --> 02:00:05.560
But that's just my words. Don't don't don't quote

02:00:05.560 --> 02:00:09.789
me here, folks. It's just crazy. I mean, like,

02:00:09.850 --> 02:00:12.649
I wouldn't do that to like my worst enemy. Like,

02:00:12.649 --> 02:00:15.510
you know, if it just, it just seems crazy to

02:00:15.510 --> 02:00:18.050
do it to three dudes that you grew up with and

02:00:18.050 --> 02:00:20.210
made beautiful music with, but that's neither

02:00:20.210 --> 02:00:23.350
here nor there. I got a cool question for you.

02:00:23.449 --> 02:00:26.829
Do you have a favorite live album, Chad Taylor?

02:00:30.949 --> 02:00:34.029
I knew this would be hard for you too. This is

02:00:34.029 --> 02:00:42.390
difficult. for a myriad of reasons, Secrets of

02:00:42.390 --> 02:00:48.770
Mahdi. And I'll only say because it's the most

02:00:48.770 --> 02:00:52.649
freeing album that we made, free from pressure.

02:00:54.170 --> 02:00:57.510
We had catapulted to success behind Throwing

02:00:57.510 --> 02:01:01.829
Copper and everything from the writing sessions

02:01:01.829 --> 02:01:07.380
to... all these like amazing experiences making

02:01:07.380 --> 02:01:09.539
the record, the videos, everything we were doing,

02:01:10.279 --> 02:01:15.079
we're all just the way that we wanted it. It

02:01:15.079 --> 02:01:16.960
really did congeal and it really did. And there

02:01:16.960 --> 02:01:20.220
was no telling us no. And we weren't really fighting

02:01:20.220 --> 02:01:22.760
each other. We weren't fighting the system. We

02:01:22.760 --> 02:01:28.240
were just together. It was very, very... Amazing

02:01:28.240 --> 02:01:30.539
blissful experience and that's so that's not

02:01:30.539 --> 02:01:32.380
really about the songs or putting them on the

02:01:32.380 --> 02:01:34.819
way they sound although you guys had on Tom Lord

02:01:34.819 --> 02:01:37.260
algae and he tells you the story about you know

02:01:37.260 --> 02:01:41.920
mixing in New York City and It's the only live

02:01:41.920 --> 02:01:44.739
record that Tom well now that's true because

02:01:44.739 --> 02:01:49.640
he he mixed around copper actually in Wisconsin

02:01:49.640 --> 02:01:52.300
oh shoot now that I think about it. So we got

02:01:52.300 --> 02:01:55.689
Tom out of his home base in Miami I think that

02:01:55.689 --> 02:01:57.810
was good for both Ron Copper and for Secrets

02:01:57.810 --> 02:02:00.590
of Mahdi, now that I think about it. And of course,

02:02:00.710 --> 02:02:04.869
his influence on those records is insurmountable

02:02:04.869 --> 02:02:07.670
and just the tones and everything that's on Secrets

02:02:07.670 --> 02:02:11.529
of Mahdi and the purity. I know I was at my very,

02:02:11.529 --> 02:02:15.069
very, very, very best on that record. Jack Gracie

02:02:15.069 --> 02:02:17.609
was his very, very, very best. Patrick is his

02:02:17.609 --> 02:02:19.890
very, very best. And Ed was at his very, very,

02:02:19.890 --> 02:02:23.819
very best. And like that's... Rare when you get

02:02:23.819 --> 02:02:26.520
that when it can all come together When the pressures

02:02:26.520 --> 02:02:28.800
of life and manhood and all the things that come

02:02:28.800 --> 02:02:31.979
with having families and all that You know difficult

02:02:31.979 --> 02:02:36.220
stuff it that wasn't pounding down on us so much

02:02:36.220 --> 02:02:39.819
well well said and And you guys were in like

02:02:39.819 --> 02:02:42.380
a fucking real difficult spot to to come off

02:02:42.380 --> 02:02:44.859
the major success you had with throwing copper

02:02:44.859 --> 02:02:47.159
like everybody's expecting you to put out this

02:02:47.159 --> 02:02:49.659
banging third album. And you guys definitely

02:02:49.659 --> 02:02:51.359
delivered on it. But there must have been an

02:02:51.359 --> 02:02:53.079
intense amount of pressure. But it seems like

02:02:53.079 --> 02:02:55.319
it rolled right off your guys back and you were

02:02:55.319 --> 02:02:57.659
firing on all cylinders at that particular moment

02:02:57.659 --> 02:03:03.800
in time somehow. Chatty, what was your experience

02:03:03.800 --> 02:03:06.840
with Seeker's body? I'm just curious. Oh, I mean,

02:03:06.899 --> 02:03:10.369
I was. thinking exactly what you said. Like we

02:03:10.369 --> 02:03:13.189
had all that success and everyone thought everyone's

02:03:13.189 --> 02:03:14.930
perception is that we had all this pressure from

02:03:14.930 --> 02:03:18.010
the record company. But we we didn't. We were

02:03:18.010 --> 02:03:21.869
like we were I think the way we were. I mean,

02:03:21.869 --> 02:03:23.649
we were a little probably all had a little ego

02:03:23.649 --> 02:03:25.930
and like we fucking blow up. We were huge and

02:03:25.930 --> 02:03:27.729
like, yeah, we're going to make a record, but

02:03:27.729 --> 02:03:29.590
we're going to make it our way. That's not ego.

02:03:29.729 --> 02:03:31.789
That's confidence. That sounds like confidence

02:03:31.789 --> 02:03:35.449
to me. This is not sure. Yeah. But that secret

02:03:35.449 --> 02:03:37.720
somebody is my favorite record, too. for a lot

02:03:37.720 --> 02:03:41.420
of those reasons and I just had never put it

02:03:41.420 --> 02:03:45.060
into those words but I echoed that. I can remember

02:03:45.060 --> 02:03:48.420
very specifically we did a writing session really

02:03:48.420 --> 02:03:51.439
more of an arrangement session where we had gone

02:03:51.439 --> 02:03:55.899
into the chameleon club while no one was in there

02:03:55.899 --> 02:03:58.399
and we had set up on the floor of the chameleon

02:03:58.399 --> 02:04:01.399
not the stage. We asked Rich Rue off the owner

02:04:01.399 --> 02:04:04.640
if we could play in there and Ed had written

02:04:04.640 --> 02:04:10.199
Graze. and We hit the freaking chorus of that

02:04:10.199 --> 02:04:14.399
song and I am telling you I Believe for at least

02:04:14.399 --> 02:04:17.840
two minutes. I floated off the ground That it

02:04:17.840 --> 02:04:21.100
was so magical the way all the instruments congealed

02:04:21.100 --> 02:04:24.380
I it was it's still earth -shattering Actually,

02:04:24.380 --> 02:04:26.380
it's kind of funny because I would tell you it's

02:04:26.380 --> 02:04:28.159
the record that I listen to the least because

02:04:28.159 --> 02:04:31.899
when I hear that I'm like, how do you fuck that

02:04:31.899 --> 02:04:37.020
up? like how Like, we had the secret, secret,

02:04:37.020 --> 02:04:40.460
secret, secret sauce. Yeah. And I blame each

02:04:40.460 --> 02:04:42.720
of us. You know, like, John, you're like, oh,

02:04:42.819 --> 02:04:44.619
you know, whatever you, I get it, you'll pick

02:04:44.619 --> 02:04:46.699
on Ed or whatever. I'm not picking on him. His

02:04:46.699 --> 02:04:48.460
circumstances or whatever his circumstances.

02:04:48.899 --> 02:04:51.079
I'm saying as a collective, how do we let each

02:04:51.079 --> 02:04:52.880
other down? How do we let the fans down? How

02:04:52.880 --> 02:04:56.119
do we ever let go of that? Like, you have, like,

02:04:56.250 --> 02:04:59.170
in sports terms, you have the championship team.

02:04:59.350 --> 02:05:01.289
It's the same coach. It's the same players. It's

02:05:01.289 --> 02:05:03.810
all those things. But for whatever reason, you're

02:05:03.810 --> 02:05:05.890
suddenly the Boston Celtics and you can't duplicate

02:05:05.890 --> 02:05:09.770
it. Yeah. Well, it just shows the progression

02:05:09.770 --> 02:05:12.609
you guys were on to go from mental jewelry to

02:05:12.609 --> 02:05:15.210
throwing copper to secret Samadhi. And they just

02:05:15.210 --> 02:05:17.869
keep getting incrementally better. It shows you

02:05:17.869 --> 02:05:20.470
guys were working with the right formula and

02:05:20.470 --> 02:05:23.659
whatever was going on. The magic was there. And,

02:05:23.720 --> 02:05:25.279
and the fact that you guys weren't feeling the

02:05:25.279 --> 02:05:28.140
pressures is like, it looked like Chad mentioned

02:05:28.140 --> 02:05:30.119
ego, but I think it's just your confidence. Cause

02:05:30.119 --> 02:05:32.539
you guys knew what you were doing was legit.

02:05:32.659 --> 02:05:35.279
And you know, how could you not be confident

02:05:35.279 --> 02:05:38.600
with it? I just realized my computer battery

02:05:38.600 --> 02:05:41.239
is on 2%. I want to go and run and get my chart.

02:05:41.619 --> 02:05:45.930
Yeah. I got to go pick up Phoenix from schools.

02:05:46.210 --> 02:05:48.109
I want to play the last two voicemails for the

02:05:48.109 --> 02:05:50.229
audience and then we'll end this. We'll wind

02:05:50.229 --> 02:05:51.789
it down real quick. You play that. I'm going

02:05:51.789 --> 02:05:53.289
to be listening. I'm going to get the power so

02:05:53.289 --> 02:05:57.409
it doesn't just turn off. Rock on. All right,

02:05:57.489 --> 02:06:00.090
ladies and gentlemen, two of three voicemails

02:06:00.090 --> 02:06:03.789
going on right now. And I almost click the play

02:06:03.789 --> 02:06:11.310
button on the wrong screen. Here we go. Hello,

02:06:11.609 --> 02:06:14.989
John. Hello to the Chads and hello to the gracious

02:06:14.989 --> 02:06:18.689
audience. This is Troy Garman checking in. Troy.

02:06:18.869 --> 02:06:22.829
Big fan, as a lot of you probably know by this

02:06:22.829 --> 02:06:25.670
point. Did not have the opportunity to meet Mr.

02:06:25.829 --> 02:06:27.789
Taylor. I hope I can sometime in the future.

02:06:29.689 --> 02:06:32.090
I'm happy that you guys are mending fences. It

02:06:32.090 --> 02:06:35.270
gives us fans hope that there could be more music

02:06:35.270 --> 02:06:38.229
and collaboration in the future. And I would

02:06:38.229 --> 02:06:43.039
also like to wish Chad Taylor success and his

02:06:43.039 --> 02:06:45.520
sobriety journey and I hope everything is going

02:06:45.520 --> 02:06:49.720
well with that and My question or I guess comment

02:06:49.720 --> 02:06:54.560
might be As I've talked with mr. Gracie about

02:06:54.560 --> 02:06:57.420
some of the songs that have been written it seemed

02:06:57.420 --> 02:06:59.579
to have the ones that I seem to like the most

02:06:59.579 --> 02:07:01.720
always had a lot of Chad Taylor touch on them

02:07:01.720 --> 02:07:04.819
and I was just wondering how many songs are still

02:07:04.819 --> 02:07:06.180
sitting out there that could have been part of

02:07:06.180 --> 02:07:09.619
the live catalog that We did not get the opportunity

02:07:09.619 --> 02:07:12.579
to hear So I'd love to hear your responses to

02:07:12.579 --> 02:07:16.640
that Thanks guys. Best of luck and Thank you

02:07:16.640 --> 02:07:18.579
guys for all the music you put out there really

02:07:18.579 --> 02:07:25.880
appreciate it Troy Garman good stuff there Well,

02:07:25.939 --> 02:07:28.439
so Troy brings up an interesting topic which

02:07:28.439 --> 02:07:33.220
is Gracie and I've been in conversations about

02:07:33.220 --> 02:07:37.180
Doing a podcast where we would unearth the live

02:07:37.180 --> 02:07:46.520
musical archive Yes, I Mean there's You know,

02:07:46.659 --> 02:07:51.399
I don't know 20 albums worth of songs it's a

02:07:51.399 --> 02:07:57.800
lot it's an awful lot Wow, it's um You know,

02:07:57.800 --> 02:07:59.840
it's probably not the size of Prince's vault,

02:07:59.840 --> 02:08:05.000
but yet it's an enormous archive and You know,

02:08:05.000 --> 02:08:09.229
it's never seen the light of day And you know,

02:08:09.250 --> 02:08:13.069
we've been talking about just like doing this,

02:08:13.069 --> 02:08:15.710
you know, sort of like semi chronological thing

02:08:15.710 --> 02:08:18.050
where we would pull out tracks and tunes and

02:08:18.050 --> 02:08:20.850
like, you know, play them and have people, you

02:08:20.850 --> 02:08:25.329
know, call in and, you know, get involved, you

02:08:25.329 --> 02:08:27.850
know, with the music. These aren't, you know,

02:08:27.949 --> 02:08:33.189
by any means finished pieces. So, and there's

02:08:33.189 --> 02:08:37.380
like, I have like, for example, in my collection

02:08:37.380 --> 02:08:40.960
like the early CBGB's cassette tapes from the

02:08:40.960 --> 02:08:43.260
board like from when we were public affection

02:08:43.260 --> 02:08:47.600
and like before like it was even live I have

02:08:47.600 --> 02:08:50.539
I have in fact I have a cassette on a cassette

02:08:50.539 --> 02:08:54.380
tape or recording that was made in my parents

02:08:54.380 --> 02:08:58.699
or in my bedroom at my parents house of us playing

02:08:58.699 --> 02:09:00.680
and you know it's not something I would want

02:09:00.680 --> 02:09:08.680
to do I think what I was going to say is I don't

02:09:08.680 --> 02:09:10.380
think it's anything that I want to particularly

02:09:10.380 --> 02:09:13.380
put and release in some cases, but just to hear

02:09:13.380 --> 02:09:15.579
magical little moments like where we're growing,

02:09:16.020 --> 02:09:18.420
where Ed hasn't come into his own with his voice,

02:09:18.939 --> 02:09:21.399
or Gracie screwing up drum parts, or I'm probably

02:09:21.399 --> 02:09:23.659
playing wrong chords, or whatever. Patrick, by

02:09:23.659 --> 02:09:25.920
the way, always played the right stuff, even

02:09:25.920 --> 02:09:29.260
back then. But it's so funny. Everybody wants

02:09:29.260 --> 02:09:33.800
to see the Ruby guitar. She's packed away at

02:09:33.800 --> 02:09:36.680
the moment. Uh, and then also the other daughters,

02:09:36.859 --> 02:09:39.159
there's a Delilah guitar and a Scarlett guitar.

02:09:39.380 --> 02:09:42.520
And then, and then the girls get mad. Like if,

02:09:42.659 --> 02:09:44.979
as I would do the tour dates, if I took out the

02:09:44.979 --> 02:09:46.739
Delilah guitar, I would hear from Scarlett and

02:09:46.739 --> 02:09:48.479
Ruby like, why aren't you playing my guitar?

02:09:49.000 --> 02:09:51.819
Uh, so I have to give them all equal air time

02:09:51.819 --> 02:09:55.000
now. That's awesome. I love it. That's cool.

02:09:55.039 --> 02:09:56.600
I didn't know that. So the other two were named

02:09:56.600 --> 02:09:59.449
after your daughters too. That's awesome. I knew

02:09:59.449 --> 02:10:02.489
Ruby Lou, that's great. Yeah, they're all 1961

02:10:02.489 --> 02:10:05.369
or 62 jazz masters, Fender jazz masters. The

02:10:05.369 --> 02:10:08.050
black one is the Delilah guitar. The Fiesta Red

02:10:08.050 --> 02:10:10.710
is the Scarlett guitar. And of course, the Seafoam

02:10:10.710 --> 02:10:13.630
Green is the Ruby Lou guitar. Oh, what a good

02:10:13.630 --> 02:10:15.850
dad, too. So you picked the same guitars, too.

02:10:16.090 --> 02:10:18.430
So they weren't no guitar was better than the

02:10:18.430 --> 02:10:21.310
other. Yes, that's right. I love it, man. Good

02:10:21.310 --> 02:10:23.350
stuff. All right. Let's go to this last voicemail

02:10:23.350 --> 02:10:26.109
and Chad Taylor. Unfortunately, we're going to

02:10:26.109 --> 02:10:27.789
have to have you on again, man. The fans have

02:10:27.789 --> 02:10:29.710
spoken. They love you. They want more from you.

02:10:29.909 --> 02:10:31.770
So we're going to have to get you on here again

02:10:31.770 --> 02:10:35.810
for sure. Oh, thank you guys. I just want to

02:10:35.810 --> 02:10:38.229
say it's been amazing being on here. I'm excited

02:10:38.229 --> 02:10:41.510
to hear this voicemail. Did Oh, let's do, Oh,

02:10:41.510 --> 02:10:43.189
this is only four seconds. So we might not have

02:10:43.189 --> 02:10:47.810
much. Let's say four seconds. Oh, Taylor, you

02:10:47.810 --> 02:10:55.340
fuck. Okay. Well, here we go. Thank you for that.

02:10:56.279 --> 02:10:59.880
That's my favorite one. That mine too. Mine too.

02:11:01.819 --> 02:11:04.420
There it is. Mr. Taylor play us out. Who was

02:11:04.420 --> 02:11:06.760
that? I don't know, but we will look that up

02:11:06.760 --> 02:11:09.060
for sure. I don't know, but he's my favorite

02:11:09.060 --> 02:11:16.579
fan. He's probably right too. Uh, Chad also the

02:11:16.579 --> 02:11:19.159
podcast that we're contemplating and probably

02:11:19.159 --> 02:11:21.600
going to do with this. It's going to be about

02:11:21.600 --> 02:11:24.760
archives of the music, but also explaining like,

02:11:24.840 --> 02:11:28.520
as I said before, the chat has this amazing base,

02:11:28.520 --> 02:11:32.460
the spreadsheet of every day of our life from

02:11:32.460 --> 02:11:38.000
tours from 1988 89 sometime. Yeah, basically.

02:11:38.199 --> 02:11:41.140
Well, from our birth, which is pretty crazy.

02:11:41.359 --> 02:11:44.560
Right. I mean, we would spend time on that podcast

02:11:44.560 --> 02:11:48.420
going through like Sometimes going through days,

02:11:48.579 --> 02:11:50.000
like what were you doing on this day? You were

02:11:50.000 --> 02:11:54.060
in Athens, Georgia playing at this theater on

02:11:54.060 --> 02:11:55.880
the mental jewelry tour and Michael Stipe was

02:11:55.880 --> 02:11:57.939
in the audience and you guys saw him dance around

02:11:57.939 --> 02:12:02.159
on the balcony of the theater. Talk about stuff

02:12:02.159 --> 02:12:04.220
like that. We can do it by day. It's amazing.

02:12:05.180 --> 02:12:08.220
Yeah, I think we could have 3 ,000 podcasts because

02:12:08.220 --> 02:12:11.840
there are 3 ,000 entries. Right. Wow. Amazing.

02:12:12.359 --> 02:12:17.229
Anyway, so that's the idea. We are we're we're

02:12:17.229 --> 02:12:19.050
working on it and we're talking about it because

02:12:19.050 --> 02:12:20.909
we've been concentrating on other stuff right

02:12:20.909 --> 02:12:25.170
now, but But yeah, it is a definite possibility

02:12:25.170 --> 02:12:27.729
that's on the horizon. They are working on it

02:12:27.729 --> 02:12:30.770
as we speak They're giving you the the little

02:12:30.770 --> 02:12:32.590
inside information. Let you know that's coming

02:12:32.590 --> 02:12:35.649
up Well, that's exciting man as a fan of both

02:12:35.649 --> 02:12:37.350
of yours and music and stuff. That'll be cool

02:12:37.350 --> 02:12:40.289
to hear all the Bird's -eye view kind of of your

02:12:40.289 --> 02:12:42.890
guys, you know days back in the day hearing it

02:12:42.890 --> 02:12:47.069
from the horse's mouth so to speak If there's

02:12:47.069 --> 02:12:49.829
any lesson to be a summary lesson from all this,

02:12:50.050 --> 02:12:52.270
and I want to remind myself of all this, the

02:12:52.270 --> 02:12:55.010
most important thing is to let the past in the

02:12:55.010 --> 02:12:57.800
past. whatever's been done back then it's just

02:12:57.800 --> 02:13:00.279
done it just is it's over with it doesn't matter

02:13:00.279 --> 02:13:02.539
you don't have to go back over it forgiveness

02:13:02.539 --> 02:13:05.399
is the key i'm telling you it's the secret sauce

02:13:05.399 --> 02:13:08.039
it's the secret sauce to everything i'll remind

02:13:08.039 --> 02:13:10.340
everybody and i'll ask you to do the same say

02:13:10.340 --> 02:13:12.439
your prayers for all of us say your prayers for

02:13:12.439 --> 02:13:14.600
ed say your prayers for patrick say your prayers

02:13:14.600 --> 02:13:18.460
for chad gracy same for me same for john and

02:13:18.460 --> 02:13:21.729
uh you know because ultimately, believe it or

02:13:21.729 --> 02:13:24.329
not, those energies do come together. I think

02:13:24.329 --> 02:13:26.710
the fans have more of a say than us individual

02:13:26.710 --> 02:13:28.750
members, we wouldn't be here talking if you didn't

02:13:28.750 --> 02:13:30.609
buy the records and you didn't support us and

02:13:30.609 --> 02:13:33.289
participate. So what's saying that you wouldn't,

02:13:33.289 --> 02:13:35.989
you know, be that energy the thing to like congeal

02:13:35.989 --> 02:13:37.970
and bring us back together, you just never know.

02:13:38.890 --> 02:13:41.770
I love it. There you go. I always try to wrap

02:13:41.770 --> 02:13:45.210
this never Never say never. I always try to wrap

02:13:45.210 --> 02:13:47.090
this up with something cool, but you put it,

02:13:47.189 --> 02:13:48.770
you put the nail on the head right there and

02:13:48.770 --> 02:13:50.310
we're going to leave you with that audience.

02:13:50.649 --> 02:13:53.369
Gracious audience. It has been real. We'll see

02:13:53.369 --> 02:13:57.210
you soon. Thanks everybody. Take care.